Is the Rikon "Woodfast" 70-500 really like a Woodfast, or are there corners cut?

[Doug McKnight]

I have a chance to buy one of these for $2000, and I'm a bit tempted because people seem to like the Australian Woodfast lathes.

This model is the 20" swing, fixed headstock type, with the motor underneath and the possibility of outboard turning on a left-handed thread on the outboard part of the spindle. I haven't seen it yet. (It's a bit of a drive.)

I've been leaning towards a sliding head lathe in the 20" plus sort of size, but I am a bit tempted by this machine. I don't want to be limited to 20" for occasional experiments in the future. The left-handed thread seems unnecessary with a reversible motor, but I suppose it lets you stand on the same side of the lathe, albeit with the hassle of dealing with LH accessories.

I'm enjoying learning to turn larger bowls and heading towards more experiments with hollow forms. Currently I have a 12" General International Variable speed with a sliding and swivel head.

Any comments are appreciated?

Doug

[Bob Bergstrom]

I believe the Woodfast is a DC motor and there are 5 speed pulley system similar to the Nova Lathes. The lathe is very stout and very well finished. It was state of the art back in the late 80's. The 3 phase systems changeed a lot of thinking. Less pulleys and more torque. Many owners still using them. $2,000 seems a little high unless there is stuff with it.

[David Walser]

The Rikon Woodfast 70-500 comes with electronic variable speed. It also has a 5 speed stepped-pulley. By using the variable speed in combination with the proper speed range, you can keep the three-phase motor happy. My Australian made Woodfast was set up by CSUSA the same way. It works very well.

The original poster asked if the Rikon version of these lathes are the same quality as the Australian made lathes. I cannot answer that. I've looked at the Rikon version at the local Woodcraft store and was told it's an exact duplicate -- all parts are interchangeable with the last Woodfasts made in Australia. But, I cannot say that the castings are as well-done, or that the quality of steel used for the parts is the same. I will say that the Rikon lathes I've seen in person look to be in every respect as good as the ones that were made in Australia.

[Geoff Whaling]

The Rikon Woodfast 70-500 comes with electronic variable speed. It also has a 5 speed stepped-pulley. By using the variable speed in combination with the proper speed range, you can keep the three-phase motor happy. My Australian made Woodfast was set up by CSUSA the same way. It works very well.

The original poster asked if the Rikon version of these lathes are the same quality as the Australian made lathes. I cannot answer that. I've looked at the Rikon version at the local Woodcraft store and was told it's an exact duplicate -- all parts are interchangeable with the last Woodfasts made in Australia. But, I cannot say that the castings are as well-done, or that the quality of steel used for the parts is the same. I will say that the Rikon lathes I've seen in person look to be in every respect as good as the ones that were made in Australia.

David,

I turn regularly on my 1992 Woodfast MC908 Australian made wood lathe. It has the first retrofit kit of the M910 3 ph motor and variable speed off the new M910 (Rikon 70-500). The motor, VS, 5 step pulley combination gives a huge range of torque / speed control though it is rarely required to change belt positions. It would certainly be advantageous to use the belt changes for large bowls and unbalanced work as it gives the turner more control & finer speed adjustment and less chance of making a mistake by dialing in to high a speed. I rarely move from the mid belt position though I do step it up for small spindle work.

The castings on the new off shore made lathes are certainly not to the same standard or finish of the Australian made castings but they are pretty good.

I have also turned but not for any great length of time on an M910 (70-500). It feels the same apart from the increased spindle height and retains the same DNA, well designed tool rests, banjo, nice feel to the locking levers etc. Very difficult to tell them apart and a very capable lathe.

The Woodfast story is typical of many small to medium manufacturers facing dwindling markets and cheaper labour competition. They struggled but eventually succumbed to shifting consumer loyalties.

I think you will find the 70-500 to be a very capable lathe, certainly as capable or more than the larger Jet lathes, Powermatics and Vicmarc VL200 class lathes. Not quite the same mass as some but the stand is well designed, quite comfortable to use (I'm 6'2"), though lathe spindle height (ie. stand) adjustment varies according to the stand design.

I have no experience with machines or specification changes made to suit the US market.

[Doug McKnight]

Hello,
Thanks to all who replied. I found out something today from Rikon technical support regarding the left-handed thread on the outboard side of the spindle.
It turns out they are planning to make a new spindle with RH threads on both ends that are intended to work with set screws to hold chucks and plates in place for reverse turning. They said this will be available as a retrofit, but they don't know about timeline or price yet.
I think this is a good thing. The left handed threads seemed a bit of an unnecessary pain on a lathe with a reversing motor. I suspect the LH thread is an example of the machine displaying its heritage as a good quality, but older design. I think modern controllers remove the need for the LH threading and also 5 speeds.
I'm still unsure about this as a used machine at this price. I would want the new spindle, when available, and I can imagine that costing a few hundred dollars (???).

Doug

[Geoff Whaling]

Hello,
Thanks to all who replied. I found out something today from Rikon technical support regarding the left-handed thread on the outboard side of the spindle.
It turns out they are planning to make a new spindle with RH threads on both ends that are intended to work with set screws to hold chucks and plates in place for reverse turning. They said this will be available as a retrofit, but they don't know about timeline or price yet.
I think this is a good thing. The left handed threads seemed a bit of an unnecessary pain on a lathe with a reversing motor. I suspect the LH thread is an example of the machine displaying its heritage as a good quality, but older design. I think modern controllers remove the need for the LH threading and also 5 speeds.
I'm still unsure about this as a used machine at this price. I would want the new spindle, when available, and I can imagine that costing a few hundred dollars (???).

Doug

Doug, don't fall into the trap of thinking that because a lathe has reverse fitted that it is safe to turn in the reverse direction. I know turners are doing so, but it does have significant hazards with potential for the chuck insert to unscrew from the chuck body and the whole chuck insert assembly and work piece to come off the lathe spindle. Set screws are only a temporary solution to one of those hazards. Very few chucks have set screws on both the chuck body and insert. Some chuck manufacturers are revising their manuals to say light turning and sanding only in the reverse direction. The Nova Infinity & Easy Chuck both have those recommendations in their chuck manuals.

The conventional wood lathe spindle thread setup has long been discarded on production metal lathes because there are much better and less hazardous solutions available.

[Jim Maxwell]

Hi Doug, I like Woodfast gear and have been using it since 1982. I have three Woodfast lathes, none of them have ever let me down. I am currently using a MC908, bought in 2008, with the left hand thread outboard. Recently I turned a maple bowl that started out 500mm x 275mm, outboard. I did not find it awkward at all. My lathe has an after market Woodfast EVS unit fitted. Admittedly my machine was Australian made, but the Woodfast midi WM-308, was Chinese made, I don't have any problem with the quality, and can only assume the heavier machines made in China are also satisfactory.

Jim

[Thom Sturgill]

... Some chuck manufacturers are revising their manuals to say light turning and sanding only in the reverse direction. The Nova Infinity & Easy Chuck both have those recommendations in their chuck manuals. ...

I have not looked at the Easy Chuck mechanism, but suspect that it is similar to the Nova. The nova Infinity chuck uses tapers slides that tighten as the chuck spins. Thus in reverse they would loosen. Nothing to do with the holding capability of the set screw, though I would tend to agree that the holding strength of a set screw is minimal unless it tightens on a machined flat.

[Doug McKnight]

Doug, don't fall into the trap of thinking that because a lathe has reverse fitted that it is safe to turn in the reverse direction. I know turners are doing so, but it does have significant hazards with potential for the chuck insert to unscrew from the chuck body and the whole chuck insert assembly and work piece to come off the lathe spindle. Set screws are only a temporary solution to one of those hazards. Very few chucks have set screws on both the chuck body and insert. Some chuck manufacturers are revising their manuals to say light turning and sanding only in the reverse direction. The Nova Infinity & Easy Chuck both have those recommendations in their chuck manuals.

The conventional wood lathe spindle thread setup has long been discarded on production metal lathes because there are much better and less hazardous solutions available.

Right, I agree. My point is that, for outboard turning on this lathe, I'd rather use a RH thread and one of my RH thread chucks on a RH spindle. This requires the motor to run in reverse which it can do. I suspect that the main reason for the LH thread being there originally was because the original motor(s) may not have been capable of running in reverse.

Doug

[Geoff Whaling]

I have not looked at the Easy Chuck mechanism, but suspect that it is similar to the Nova. The nova Infinity chuck uses tapers slides that tighten as the chuck spins. Thus in reverse they would loosen. Nothing to do with the holding capability of the set screw, though I would tend to agree that the holding strength of a set screw is minimal unless it tightens on a machined flat.

Thom, I agree about the design issues with the Nova Infinity. The Easy Chuck has a different setup, the jaws slide in radially whereas the Infinity they engage tangentially. The Easy Chuck has a high reliance upon a spring loaded keeper which will perform equally as well in forward or reverse but in the longer term debris and the strength of the spring may impair its ability to retain the jaw??? Time will tell.

Right, I agree. My point is that, for outboard turning on this lathe, I'd rather use a RH thread and one of my RH thread chucks on a RH spindle. This requires the motor to run in reverse which it can do. I suspect that the main reason for the LH thread being there originally was because the original motor(s) may not have been capable of running in reverse. Doug

Doug, good to see you are aware of those issues. The LH thread was very functional and safe for face plate use and I agree it is a legacy of life before scroll chucks. Using a chuck with the lathe running anti-clockwise while turning outboard is a great idea BUT the O/B turning attachment for the Woodfast MC908/910 come Rikon is purpose designed for turning clockwise O/B. It is offset to the RHS not LHS so you would have difficulty in positioning your tool rest in the positions required to turn in the anti-clockwise direction. At least that is the case with all the Woodfast O/B turning brackets I have seen. To do what you propose also means that the lathe requires a larger foot print as the extra space required "behind the lathe" to turn anti-clockwise means the lathe would have to be positioned further out from a wall, or at least positioned not parallel to a wall at the rear of the lathe etc.

Hi Doug, I like Woodfast gear and have been using it since 1982. I have three Woodfast lathes, none of them have ever let me down. I am currently using a MC908, bought in 2008, with the left hand thread outboard. Recently I turned a maple bowl that started out 500mm x 275mm, outboard. I did not find it awkward at all. My lathe has an after market Woodfast EVS unit fitted. Admittedly my machine was Australian made, but the Woodfast midi WM-308, was Chinese made, I don't have any problem with the quality, and can only assume the heavier machines made in China are also satisfactory.

Jim

Gday Jim, great machines aren't they! The M910 EVS is superb, mine is the first kit Woodfast supplied in Australia after I pestered Bronte Edwards.