Stinking after a year? Aspen wood.

[Allen Neighbors]

Hello all.
I've been gone from the forum for a long time. And now I have a problem that I can't solve.
Here’s the background for my question: I turned some small bowls for cereal out of cured Aspen, of which I sold two at a Craft Show in Fun Valley Colorado last August. They were finished with a few coats of Watco Danish Oil, and then buffed with White Diamond and a Clean Wheel. They were cured for at least two weeks prior to buffing. They were finished and dated Jan and March 2015, respectively.
I received a call this morning from the Gentleman who purchased them… (he lives in South Texas.) He said that his wife went to their RV to get something from the cabinet, and when she opened the cabinet, the odor of the Danish Oil nearly knocked her over. He asked me what he could do to take away the odor. He says that he’s afraid that if they eat out of them, that they might get sick from the finish.
I’ve never had anything like that occur before this. I've used the same polymerizing finish for many years on utility bowls, and have 6 bowls in my kitchen right now that we use all the time. I have two vases of Aspen on my shelf now, that I finished the same way just last month, and there isn’t an odor from either one of them. And those two bowls had no odor when I sold them in August. I’m not sure what to tell him at this point.
Do you know of anything that might explain why these bowls began to smell?

[Dale Bonertz]

I know you felt they were cured but they weren't if the odor is coming out, aspen is quite soft and probably really soaked it up . They may not have had any odor when you were drying them simply because you most likely kept them where there was air movement and a more controlled environment. My guess is once they put them in a cabinet and a somewhat sealed environment (cabinet and closed up RV) in addition to the RV most likely getting very hot in it drew the danish oil out a bit. Kinda like what some people do to dry their finish in a kiln after they apply it.

I would admit that the finish most likely was not completely dry and in their hot RV and sealed in the cabinet it was drying more. I would apologize and ask them to leave it out of the cabinet with a few windows in the RV open for ventilation. It seems it just needs more time to cure. If they experience the problem again after it dries more then offer to replace them. Explain to them that when the odor is gone then any possibility of getting sick is gone as well. You might find some supporting documentation on the net and send it with your email (check Bob Flexner).

Good Luck,

[Ed Wood]

I do not know the odor answer but as a business sale. I would send them a full refund and explain as above what to do to try to clear the problem.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

I do not know the odor answer but as a business sale. I would send them a full refund and explain as above what to do to try to clear the problem.

+1, or offer them a pair of other bowls at no cost. Better than getting complaints..... That is what I would do. Never turned aspen but I did make an electic guitar out of it. Nice wood.

[Michelle Rich]

danish oil isn't really a good thing to put on eating bowls..

[Allen Neighbors]

I know you felt they were cured but they weren't if the odor is coming out, aspen is quite soft and probably really soaked it up . They may not have had any odor when you were drying them simply because you most likely kept them where there was air movement and a more controlled environment. My guess is once they put them in a cabinet and a somewhat sealed environment (cabinet and closed up RV) in addition to the RV most likely getting very hot in it drew the danish oil out a bit. Kinda like what some people do to dry their finish in a kiln after they apply it.

I would admit that the finish most likely was not completely dry and in their hot RV and sealed in the cabinet it was drying more. I would apologize and ask them to leave it out of the cabinet with a few windows in the RV open for ventilation. It seems it just needs more time to cure. If they experience the problem again after it dries more then offer to replace them. Explain to them that when the odor is gone then any possibility of getting sick is gone as well. You might find some supporting documentation on the net and send it with your email (check Bob Flexner).

Good Luck,

Dale, thanks for the explanation. It makes a lot of sense, except for the fact that between Jan/Mar and June 1 (when I packed to leave for CO) the bowls sat in my display area in my Dining Room. It is always pretty warm and dry there because of the Dearborn heater. I can't for the life of me understand how it could not have been dry, but your explanation has to have hit the nail on the head.
Thanks again,
Allen

[Allen Neighbors]

I do not know the odor answer but as a business sale. I would send them a full refund and explain as above what to do to try to clear the problem.

I will certainly make it right for them. We spend three months of every year with them, and they'll be through here pretty shortly, anyway. He's going to bring them to me to let me check them out. Thanks for the reply...
Allen

[Allen Neighbors]

+1, or offer them a pair of other bowls at no cost. Better than getting complaints..... That is what I would do. Never turned aspen but I did make an electic guitar out of it. Nice wood.

Aspen is softer than just about anything that I've ever turned. After sanding to 600 grit, the grain will raise, almost if you even breathe on it...

[Allen Neighbors]

danish oil isn't really a good thing to put on eating bowls..

It doesn't sound like it would make a nice finish for an eating utensil, but since about 88 or 89 a requirement for a wood finish in the USA is that they are all food safe "when cured". "When Cured" is the key... I've been using Watco Danish Oil on utility bowls for about 12 years, and have never had a complaint until this one. Danish oil is a polymerizing oil, and it really works to seal the cells of the wood.
The best - and safest -finish for a wooden utility bowl, by far, is no finish at all. (Ask Mike Mahoney, and the University of Tennessee) But, you can hardly sell a wooden bowl to a woman without a finish of some sort. I know, I've been selling them for 12 years. (You might be an exception.)
Thanks for the reply.
Allen

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Good to hear from you Allen, ha there is never a never is there, we do run into these unexplainable that we want to explain.

I don’t have the answer, just a maybe what could have happened, I use the Polymerizing Tung oil, as I don’t like the BLO part in the Danish oil, however if one does wipe a good heavy coat on an absorbing wood, the oil goes deep,and the air it needs to polymerize, has very little access to it, so it takes longer to cure, if we then add another coat over that not yet cured oil and the new top layer cures, we now have trapped the previous layer and it could be not have been able to cure in all this time, add another or two layers over all the previous trapping it really well, then I can believe that for the extra heat en maybe some moisture, and God nows whatever else sitting in a closed box, cabinet we now have this oil smell emanating from your turning.

I guess I’m with Dale in that an open ventilated place is called for the bowls to sit in, and given time this should all disappear, maybe just conjecture on my part, but I think believable.......I hope

And I have one for you, I turned a small Honey Locust bowl, 7 or 8 inches, long time ago, was well before I had my Chucks, and the Polymerizing Tung Oil, not 100% sure but I think it was Sunflower oil I used as a finish, it really soaked in (open grain wood), let it sit and sit and use and wash it etc, and until this very day it is sticky, we keep using it and scrubbing and washing it, but boy sometime we do get results we never thought might happen.

Have fun and keep on Turning Allen

[Tony Rozendaal]

Aspen is very close to cottonwood, perhaps the same thing. I have a cottonwood bowl that I treated with Danish oil and I can smell it when I sit near it at a craft show, but the smell is not Danish Oil, it is the smell of the cottonwood itself. Until you smell the smell yourself, I would be hesitant to blame the smell on the Danish Oil. The wood can be pretty stinky.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Aspen is very close to cottonwood, perhaps the same thing. I have a cottonwood bowl that I treated with Danish oil and I can smell it when I sit near it at a craft show, but the smell is not Danish Oil, it is the smell of the cottonwood itself. Until you smell the smell yourself, I would be hesitant to blame the smell on the Danish Oil. The wood can be pretty stinky.

Aspen is as closely related to Cottonwood as Boxelder to Sugar Maple, yes in the same family but certainly not the same, I have turned both and when dry I can’t smell any wood, be it Elm or Populars, when wet you bet , smells like a wet dog.

I like spalting Aspen or large Cottonwood crotch to turn, here are a couple pictures of Aspen,3 different pieces and a light-show of one, it grows here right on my property in N.W. Ontario

Trembling Aspen.jpg Wormy Aspen.jpg Thin Aspen bowl.jpg Aspen lighted.jpg Bigtooth & quaking Aspen.jpg

[Bill Boehme]

I agree with Dale and Michelle. WATCO Danish Oil is a bad choice for a food bowl and so is buffing with white diamond. On soft wood, a lot of finish can be absorbed and take a very long time to cure. I had one bowl that took more than three months to cure and even after that there as still some smell. There is a thread about WATCO Danish Oil on the AAW forum. I think that you will find it to be very informative, especially post #9.