Full width shavings (or not)

[Paul Fisicaro]

I have a Fulton / Sargent 409C that I brought back to life. I sharpened the blade to arm hair cutting status. Its very sharp although I dont think the bevel is right because I cant seem to get it polished throught out. Ive tried for a while.
THe edge is pretty straight (no camber), the frog is tight to the base but I cant seem to get a full width shaving. It seems to be cutting right in the middle of the blade. I'm fairly new to the plane thing so I was wondering if someone
could tell me where Im going wrong.


Thanks!

image6.jpeg image5.jpeg image4.jpeg Untitled-5c.jpg

[Brian Holcombe]

Paul, if the blade is truly flat then the board is not flat, but convex.

[Mike Brady]

I see what appears to be a gap under the front of the chip breaker. You can fix that by lapping the mating surface of that breaker on a stone (rest the back end of the breaker on the same stone so that you achieve a very slight undercut on the front mating edge. This will keep the shavings from getting caught in the the assembly. Move the breaker closer to the edge of the iron. Try to get the entire bevel lapped evenly. I recommend a sharpening jig to assure this. From this, you can hone just the barest front portion to a mirror finish. Your shaving is in the middle of the iron, so your lateral adjusting seems to be on the money. You don't necessarily need a full shaving but yours is only about 50%. Good luck and listen to what the others say.

[Derek Cohen]

There are three possible reasons (that I can think of) why the blade js cutting as it is:

1. The blade has camber.

2. The board is not flat but had a high point, as Brian also suggested.

3. The sole of the plane is not flat and is higher at the centre than the sides.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[David Eisenhauer]

Your last photo looks like it is showing your iron to have a high spot in the center (that is getting reduced during sharpening), low on the outer edges, resulting in the center of the blade cutting only. Brian and Mike also have good advice as usual. I would grind/hone away until I had an even hone line across the iron.

[Jim Koepke]

Paul,

Have you checked the blade for square?

Putting a square on the side of the blade and checking the blade will tell if there might be a camber or not. A square can also indicate if the sole of the plane is out of flat.

With a shaving as thin as you have, a camber of a few thousandths of an inch would make a difference.

Have you tried advancing the blade to obtain a full width shaving?

What happens when you run the plane along the edge of the board with just half of the plane on the board. Try this one both sides of the plane.

I usually set my lateral adjusters this way on the edge of a board.

Here is a bit more about getting started with hand planes:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...th-Hand-Planes

Here is another post to show you how a very small amount of camber can affect the width of a shaving:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...t-Finally-Came

jtk

[Paul Fisicaro]

THank guys. I will check all these things in the morning and give a full report. Thank you so much!

[Lenore Epstein]

I don't know whether this is relevant to anything, but in the course of sharpening, did you flatten the back of the iron? Put a straight edge across the width of the iron on either the front or back?

[Paul Fisicaro]

I flattened the back.. I did check for a camber with a straight edge and it was minimal. but from what was said above it can make a huge difference.

[Jim Koepke]

I flattened the back.. I did check for a camber with a straight edge and it was minimal. but from what was said above it can make a huge difference.

Correct, if you have 0.0015" of camber and you are taking a 0.001" shaving, it will not be full width.

I do not know how small of an item your eyes can resolve, but if I can see light at the edges of a blade when using a square, it is at least 0.002".

jtk

[Paul Fisicaro]

if it is cambered, do I apply pressure in the middle of the blade to remove it?

[Lenore Epstein]

I'm a newbie, so my only experience with cambered irons is having gotten a little too enthusiastic and putting way too much curve into a smoothing plane blade (DOH!). My thought is that if you just press on the middle you might have trouble keeping the edge from rolling left and right. I don't have a grinder (my shop=my living room), but there isn't really that much material to take off, so I'll use my King Deluxe 300 and my 1st generation Veritas guide with its wide flat roller to 'grind' the bevel back until the edge is straight. If you have one a grinder is probably the fastest way to reshape the edge and quickly restore the bevel.

My approach would be to keep even pressure (not a ton of pressure, either) on both corners so the middle of the curve comes off and the blade ends up as square as possible.

Hope that's a bit helpful!

[Jim Koepke]

if it is cambered, do I apply pressure in the middle of the blade to remove it?

If you have mentioned your sharpening set up I have missed it or forgotten?

Do you use a guide?

What kind of stones?

Do you have a way to measure your shavings?

If you can adjust your plane to take a full width shaving you could measure the outside versus the inside to see how much camber you have.

Water stones with a little dish to them may produce a cambered blade no matter how hard you try for straight.

Then there are those who insist that some camber is desirable to help avoid plane tracks. They do have a good point.

jtk

[Lasse Hilbrandt]

Do you use a eclipse jig ? if so, have you tuned it ? If not, the jig can actually warp the blade during shapening because of low tolerances in the pins.

[don wilwol]

Keep in mind, we see a lot of full width shavings shown, but in practice, they are not necessarily and often impractical.