Did oldtime craftsman flatten their plane irons?

[Derek Cohen]

Warren

When mention is made of "flattening the back of a blade", my assumption is that this will essentially involve only the first 1" behind the bevel, and not the full length under the slot.

I find it interesting that you flattened the first two inches. To do so, would I be correct in assuming that the stones you use are flat, that is, that flat stones are necessary to create and maintain a flat area at the back of the blade?

If so, how would one maintain a flat with a hollowed stone, which apparently is the norm when found at market sales?

I still believe that we need to look to time capsules for reliable information about what was done 200 years ago. What happened in the between years would have removed relevant historical data.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Patrick Chase]

Having read this entire thread, I've had two thoughts. In the preindustrial past, when every thing was made by hand, there were thousands at least, using edge tools to work wood in numerous trades. To assume that only the cabinet makers on the east coast knew how to sharpen a tool is probably silly. The shear number of coffin smothers on the market at all times indicates that there were a lot of people planning wood in the past. If you look closely at a preindustrial house made by hand you will know that carpenters of the past knew how to use a plane. The shear numbers suggest, that if the craftsmen of the past spent the time to meticulously flatten the backs of irons or chisels some would show up somewhere. My second thought is that any of the sharpening media available will give you an adequately sharp edge. The edge only needs to be sharp enough to do the job. A plane iron with a back bevel will produce the same surface as one without. A chisel with a slight back bevel will do any thing one without will do and in most cases is an advantage.

You had me in violent agreement right up to the part about back-beveled chisels. Perhaps this reflects limitations in my own technique, but I prefer not to have to lift my bench and paring chisels (or to lift them as little as possible) to get them to cut. That means a flat or slightly concave back, and no dubbing or back-beveling.

IMO mortise chisels are much less critical in this respect, though I keep the backs of those flat as well as it makes it easier to get plumb ends.

[Warren Mickley]

The polished portion of the back does not need to be an inch wide, a very thin band will do. But for someone who uses a two inch wide stone, abrading the back thousands of times on that stone tends to spread the area out to two inches.

If you find a stone at a flea market it is fun to imagine it was last used by Thomas Affleck in 1770, but more likely used by Harry the plumber in 1955 and others. Most work on the back is done with the fine stones, which are much more resistant to dishing.

In 1975 I was in the attic of a large 18th century house and I jumped up to take a swing from a tie beam and came down with an 18th century plane iron in my hand. I guess it could have been there for a long time. I was rusty, but I never got the impression that that the back had not been worked flat enough to give a fine edge. On a single iron plane the back has to be flat enough for the wedge to seat nicely; it can't be just lumpy from the forge.

[george wilson]

We agree,Warren. This is one of those threads that can go on forever,get everyone upset,and never reach conclusion. No way to know when an old tool was last in use. Most people would probably not know that they have a valuable historic artifact in hand. They just use it because they have it.

[Tom McMahon]

Patrick, I find it makes little difference, however I do a lot of carving and am used to riding the bevel. When the handle is slightly lifted you can lower it to get out of a cut. It's like turning the chisel over and using the bevel. I find that when using a flat backed chisel to remove anything more than a whisper, they have a tendency to dig in, an ever so slight back bevel eliminates this. I'm not saying that I purposely grind a bevel on the back of my chisels but a slight bevel from stropping doesn't bother me it can be useful. Almost all of my carving tools have a lot of back bevel.

[Patrick Chase]

Patrick, I find it makes little difference, however I do a lot of carving and am used to riding the bevel. When the handle is slightly lifted you can lower it to get out of a cut. It's like turning the chisel over and using the bevel. I find that when using a flat backed chisel to remove anything more than a whisper, they have a tendency to dig in, an ever so slight back bevel eliminates this. I'm not saying that I purposely grind a bevel on the back of my chisels but a slight bevel from stropping doesn't bother me it can be useful. Almost all of my carving tools have a lot of back bevel.

Yeah, I kind of suspected you might be a carver, and that's why I said "maybe ... limitations in my own technique" :-)

[Trevor Goodwin]

We agree,Warren. This is one of those threads that can go on forever,get everyone upset,and never reach conclusion. No way to know when an old tool was last in use. Most people would probably not know that they have a valuable historic artifact in hand. They just use it because they have it.

Anyone else think we should create a sub-forum dedicated to contentious questions

I find that usually when a thread has gone on for more than three pages, the original question remains unanswered and a perpetual argument is taking place.

[george wilson]

You speak with wise tongue,Trevor. They ought to close this thread. It is worthless,and taking up too much vertical space.

[Trevor Goodwin]

You speak with wise tongue,Trevor. They ought to close this thread. It is worthless,and taking up too much vertical space.

Don't get me wrong, I totally enjoy sitting back and watching the experts passionately defend their opinions and speculations. And obviously no one has to read this thread at all and can skip straight to Brian Holcombe's Japanese Toolbox, but I think a lot of typing could have been saved if we all agreed on page 2 that no one really know whether craftsmen 150 years ago flattened their irons - clearly some did and some just back beveled, whether it was called that at the time or not.