Lie-Nielsen Low Angle Jack Plane or LN #4 Smoother

[bob starkey]

This may have been asked before. I'm looking at getting a Lie-Nielsen Low Angle Jack Plane or the LN #4 Smoother. I found that both can do smoothing task and can be set up to do other task with more frogs and blades. I own the LN rabbit block plane a have enjoyed using it.
Anyone used these?

[Tony Wilkins]

I have both and both can be made do a lot of tasks well. It really depends on if you prefer bevel up or bevel down. I found out I prefer bevel down mostly.

[Prashun Patel]

These are not interchangeable planes, imho.

The la jack is longer and heavier than you might want if you are smoothing pieces under 18".

[Phil Mueller]

The LN low angle jack and a LN block plane was all I had for about a year. I found the jack was very versatile...dimensioning stock, a darn nice smooth finish, edge jointing, shooting board.

[Paul Sidener]

I have the LN low angle jack and a Bedrock #4.

I suppose you could use the low angle jack to smooth if you had a extra iron, and you had it sharpened the way you like for a smoother. Lie Nielsen uses that as a selling point. Change the bevel angle on the iron and it is like changing the frog angle.

I don't think an extra frog for a #4 will do much for you, a normal jack's frog is 45*.

[Mike Brady]

I'll second Prashun's response by adding a bit to it. The LA jack is a great first plane to buy because it is so versatile. I do think it is too long and heavy to be a smoother. It is a plane that you may find yourself using less as you acquire more specialized planes. Actually, I leave a toothed blade in my LA jack to make it kind of a super jack. By this I mean it will take off significant amounts of material, flatten, and prepare for the use of whatever smoother. I use my #3 smoother more frequently than the #4, but that is a personal preference. All of the LN smoothers are superb; but the LA smoother is overlooked and easier to set up than the bench planes. You can trust Lie-Nielsen' recommendations. They are selling you a product, but they want to to have the kind of good results that compel towards more products. You can't quarrel with that. You have to start somewhere, and their idea of a LA jack, smoother, and LA block as a base is great place to start. If you want to move on from one of their products, they are easy to sell.

[Jim Koepke]

This may have been asked before. I'm looking at getting a Lie-Nielsen Low Angle Jack Plane or the LN #4 Smoother. I found that both can do smoothing task and can be set up to do other task with more frogs and blades. I own the LN rabbit block plane a have enjoyed using it.
Anyone used these?

Though both can do some of the same jobs, these are not interchangeable planes.

Easy solution is to purchase both.

For finish smoothing mostly my #3 or #4 Stanley/Bailey planes get used. For this kind of task a bevel down plane excels. For smoothing a shorter body on a plane does a better job. The length will allow it to hug the surface better.

Even with both planes blades sharpened to the point of taking shavings thinner than my dial caliper can register, the bevel down finished surface looks a touch better.

My LN #62 is used mostly for shooting end grain. It does a better job at that than any other plane in my arsenal. Last Friday I went tot he LN Tool Event in Portland. Another visitor to the event was using the #62 on a shooting board and was amazed at the super smooth finish it left. My #62 does see some service for jointing edges or working large surfaces. It is a great plane that I would not want to be without.

Not knowing your location it is difficult to guess what kinds of woods may be commonly available. Here in the western United States, we do not get the difficult interlocking grains in our locally available woods like might be found in Australia. I see more advantage to a sharp blade and a well set cap iron than a high angle frog might provide.

As always YMMV!!!.jpg

BTW, if you are in the Pacific Northwest, there will be a Tool Event in Seattle on February 26th & 27th. You would also be welcome to contact me to come by and give my #62 and other planes a test drive.

jtk

[Shawn Pixley]

Jim and I seem to use our planes similarly.

I have three smoothers: Bailey 3 & 4 and a LN 4-1/2 with HAF. The number three is used the most. The LN is broken out with the most unrully wood.

I have two Jacks: Bailey #5 & LN LAJ. The LN is used most with toothing blade and to shoot endgrain. The Bailey is the workhorse.

[Chris Fournier]

I have both of these planes and the LAJ rarely sees the light of day, my #4 sees plenty. I use BU planes in traditional bodies but don't really like the jack version.

[Derek Cohen]

I have both of these planes and the LAJ rarely sees the light of day, my #4 sees plenty. I use BU planes in traditional bodies but don't really like the jack version.

Why Chris? Can you expand on your experience? That would be informative.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Derek Cohen]

This may have been asked before. I'm looking at getting a Lie-Nielsen Low Angle Jack Plane or the LN #4 Smoother. I found that both can do smoothing task and can be set up to do other task with more frogs and blades. I own the LN rabbit block plane a have enjoyed using it.
Anyone used these?

Bob, what are you looking for? A plane for smoothing? If so, the #4 is a good choice, and the LAJ only so-so. A general purpose plane? If so, the #4 is so-so and the LAJ is excellent.

I suspect that the LAJ is a plane that many purchase when starting down the hand plane route. I began with the Stanley #62 and then the LV LA Jack. The LN #62 is a reworked Stanley, while the LV is a slightly wider and heavier plane. This is noticeable in use.

The LAJ finds many uses at the beginning. As one's plane collection increases, specialist planes take over many of the duties the LAJ had, and it range of uses decreases. It remains a fabulous plane but, like the saying, it is a master of few areas. The #4, however, increasingly comes into its own as a specialist smoother.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Phil Mueller]

I'll add to my comment above and second what Derek said above. I'm relatively new at this hand plane thing. I find the LAJ very forgiving, easy to set up and use with pretty good results. I've just recently acquired a #4 and #3. I suspect, as Derek suggests, as I work with the 4 & 3 they will become a staple in my woodworking.

[Patrick Chase]

I have both of these planes and the LAJ rarely sees the light of day, my #4 sees plenty. I use BU planes in traditional bodies but don't really like the jack version.

IMO the problem with using a Jack (any jack, BU or BD) as a super-smoother is that it forces you to flatten the living daylights out of anything you want to smooth. That's all fine and well until you find yourself with a localized defect like minor tearout, and you just want to smooth it out and feather the resulting depression into the piece. That's where small smoothers really come into their own.

I guess one big question for the OP is: Do you have a jointer? If not and you're only going to buy one plane then the Jack is a reasonable choice. It's short for a jointer and long for a smoother, but it'll do for both in a pinch. If you do have a jointer then I think you should "go small" with the smoother.

EDIT: For what it's worth, my main smoothers are an assortment of 4-sized (LV classic 4 at 45 deg, LV custom 4 at 55 deg, LV LAS), and 4-1/2-sized (LV custom 4-1/2 at 45 deg but with a 55 frog on hand for emergencies, LV BUS). These larger smoother are augmented by an LN 2 and a WR 3.Much of the time I end up with the 45-deg 4 or the 3.

[Chris Fournier]

I bought the LAJ earlier on in my hand plane quest as you suggest Derek. I felt that a "Jackblock" plane would be like my block planes on steroids and I used block planes extensively while instrument building. I don't really feel that the LAJ worked out as such for me. As I acquired more bedrock style planes I found that I had better success with them with less fuss. If my BD plane is razor sharp and I have a high frog there really isn't any tricky grain that I fear, alternatively if I have a ton of planing to do I just have to push a bit harder with this set up. I find that I can adjust my BD planes in much finer increments than the LAJ as well. I also wasn't keen on multiple LAJ irons to cover all of the tasks I might face.

I find that the LAJ sides are quite small surface wise and the plane is pretty light weight so it really isn't a plane that I want to shoot with. Again the LAJ stays in the drawer.

I have used my LAJ to flatten larger end grain surfaces say 6' square and honestly I found that my #7 was equally adpet at the task although the iron seemed to degrade faster than on the LAJ. The added heft of the #7 likely had a lot to do with it.

So, LAJ or #4? Well as you say they are quite different. For me BD is my preference so I'd go #5 over the LAJ. If I was smoothing I wouldn't really look for a Jack so I'd go for a #3 or #4 and again I'd opt for BD because they seem to be most effective in my hands on my projects.

My LAJ and BD planes are all LNs by the way. A rushed response but I gotta go...

[Chris Hachet]

Jim and I seem to use our planes similarly.

I have three smoothers: Bailey 3 & 4 and a LN 4-1/2 with HAF. The number three is used the most. The LN is broken out with the most unrully wood.

I have two Jacks: Bailey #5 & LN LAJ. The LN is used most with toothing blade and to shoot endgrain. The Bailey is the workhorse.

My Baily 35 is my best work horse and my favorite plane actually. I am going to be acquiring a #4 LN. I use an ECE woodie but it is a pain to pull the blade and sharpen it, and I am in the habbit now of sharpening frequently.