Contributor
I'd say that our trusted government agencies blew it and they should be held accountable for their failure. Honestly, what you citem is the type of fear mongering that sacrifices our liberty and I think it is unamerican. We need to hold our constitutional rights sacred and not give in to this sort of hysterical overreaction.Originally Posted by Jerome Stanek
Contributor
Additionally, what about when China wants Apple to unlock iPhones of 1000 political dissidents as their activity is against Chinese law ?
"What do you mean you won't do it, Apple ? You did it for the US."
Contributor
China, as well as other countries, has the ability to sanction an iPhone owner until the owner gives up the pass code - same as in the US.
Unless Apple can honestly claim that they cannot develop an unlock tool, China could order Apple to develop the unlock tool and then turn it over to them. Apple would then have to decide if they would or not. If they decided not to, China might block them from the China market. All this is independent of what happens in the US.
In other words, China could say that you can't sell a product in our country that we cannot unlock.
Once the genie is out of the bottle, it's very hard to put it back in.
About the best that Apple can do is release a new version of IOS that absolutely, positively cannot under any circumstances be unlocked without the passcode. I don't know if such a thing is possible.
Mike
[It is possible that Apple had to give China a way to unlock phones before they were allowed to sell in the China market.]
Last edited by Mike Henderson; 02-20-2016 at 6:33 PM.
Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.
Member
I'm with Pat on this. We should not give up our liberties out of fear and panic. It's a digital truth that if it can be hacked it will be. If a back-door is opened for one government it can be opened by others, likely those with nefarious goals. The focus put on one terrorists phone is a red herring to open a much bigger crack in freedom.
Contributor
Even before this latest issue, governments in the USA have been complaining about how hard it is to get data from modern smartphones with all the encryption, passcodes, remote wiping, and so on. A smart criminal would either wipe the phone remotely, or get someone else to wipe the phone remotely. Apple has made it very easy to wipe phones and lock them electronically to help with theft issues. Nobody is going to steal phones if they have zero resale value.
Member
This is the crux of the matter and something many here seem to be missing. The FBI has the super computers and the means to figure out the password, they just can't do it in ten tries.
In my opinion, in the case of a capital crime or terrorist act, all criminals surrender their rights to any expectation of privacy.
Contributor
I don't know what "liberty and freedom" we're giving up here. Almost anything you own can be subpoenaed by a court - financial records, essentially all your communications (letters, texts, email, etc.), your computer, and just about anything else. And if they seize your computer, they can require you to give them the password to get into the computer.
What's the difference with the court requiring an iPhone to be unlocked?
Mike
[Just a side note, Apple apparently admits it can write code to unlock iPhones - see here.]
[Another story here. Looks like they've done it before.]
Last edited by Mike Henderson; 02-20-2016 at 7:15 PM.
Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.
Contributor
Once hackers know Apple has a backdoor into the iPhone they will be spending lots of time trying to find and exploit the backdoor. How would Apple kept this code secret? A rogue Apple employee might decide the code is worth a lot to a criminal and sells it to them. Maybe hackers will use this backdoor to install ransom ware where you have to pay to get your phone under your control again.
Member
That’s it in a nutshell.
Once Apple has created a version of the iOS which:
- can be downloaded onto a phone w/o requiring authentication
- removes the wipe after 10 failed attempts feature
Then it becomes a question of how do you control access to and copying of that version?
Once the genie is out of the bottle, then it can’t be put back.
Also, all it would then take to access any phone would be:
- physical access to the phone
- the iOS version
- time and hardware to run the brute force pass-codes
Contributor
Like every intelligent, well-informed person, I hate the government and realize it is a vile idiot. That being said, I am somewhat inclined to side with the court.
When the founders drafted the Fourth Amendment, it was not their intention to make search and seizure impossible. They only wanted to make it reasonable. They didn't want the local sheriff rolling people out of their beds at night and going through their belongings on a whim. They decided the authorities should have to spell out their reasons for searching, submit them to judges, and get court orders. They didn't provide a legal right to hide things from the government even when it had good reason to search.
I don't think we've ever had the legal right to keep anything that isn't privileged or self-incriminating from the government, when the government had a strong, legitimate reason to force us to produce it. Remember when the government forced Michael Jackson to pose for photos of his genitals? That's a lot worse than hacking your phone.
The government can override our rights in a number of ways. For example, a government agency can have a racist policy, IF they can show that it serves a compelling interest. The Bill of Rights limits what the government can do, but the limits are not all carved in stone.
Would we really want a terrorist to be able to encrypt a phone or laptop containing the location of a bomb on a timer?
Cry "Havoc," and let slip the dogs of bench.
I was socially distant before it was cool.
A little authority corrupts a lot.
Contributor
Since when does everyone have to see the government as a vile idiot and hate it to be considered intelligent and we'll informed?
Could someone have a differing opinion while remaining well informed and intelligent?
Nothing is as easy as oversimplified points of view would like to believe. You can't on one hand hold the federal government responsible for national security and on the other hand deny them access to information on an iPhone that was used by someone who commited a terrorist act especially when the iPhone in question wasn't a personal iPhone but rather was provided by their county government employer.
Ken
So much to learn, so little time.....
Contributor
When you bring gun control into the mix, then definitely becomes political and the the thread should be closed IMO.
Stay away from it!
Ken
So much to learn, so little time.....
[OP]
Moderator
Ken
It seems to me that the participants have behaved quite well on what is clearly a hot issue.
Mike Null
St. Louis Laser, Inc.
Trotec Speedy 300, 80 watt
Gravograph IS400
Woodworking shop CLTT and Laser Sublimation
Dye Sublimation
CorelDraw X5, X7
Member
The court gave the cops permission to search the phone and they did. They couldn't find anything because it was encrypted. That's not Apples problem, that's the FBI's problem.
The court was demanding Apple to make new software that doesn't exist to get into the phone. That's not the same as a legal search. Would I want Apple to give them the information, sure. But it's not Apples responsibility to invent something to search a phone the FBI can't decrypt.
Moderator
I find it ironic reading that the current "unknown" passcode may have been set by the FBI, not the terrorist...if true, that makes the situation "more interesting" in many respects.
--
The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...
Posting Permissions
