[OP]
Member
OK Rob Lee,
Tell me what you think. I have a lot of curly maple and figured mahogany in a job coming up. I don't want to fuss with that Primus plane every time I pick it up for this. Your BU Smoother with the 2 1/4" iron and a 50 degree total pitch (optional 62 degree available), or your Custom 4 1/2 with 55 degree frog & 2 3/8" iron? Give me pro's and con's.
"I've cut the dang thing three times and it's STILL too darn short"
Name withheld to protect the guilty
Stew Hagerty
Member
The big question here is: How do you want to mitigate tearout?Originally Posted by Stew Hagerty
The BUS is as Derek says a "fire and forget" option (I have one of those, too). A BD bench plane with a close-set chipbreaker will allow you to use a lower cutting angle on any given wood and therefore yield a somewhat better surface, but that's not the easiest setup to perfect.
When I mentioned that my 4-1/2 currently has a 55-deg frog I probably should have disclosed that I seldom use it in that configuration, and I'll probably switch it over to a 40 deg frog before long. As Derek says a wide plane with a high-angle frog is a lot of work. I personally am reasonably comfortable pushing it, but it's not my first choice.
Member
If you want to ask Rob a question like that then you should move it to a separate thread that does not solicit comparisons between his planes and those of a competitor. He's not allowed to post in a thread like this, and even if he were allowed to I'm quite sure he would refrain out of respect for the forum's integrity.
Last edited by Patrick Chase; 02-23-2016 at 9:09 PM.
Contributor
Patrick is right about Rob and threads between he and a competitor.
however, as Derek is someone who was the test pilot for several of the Veritas planes, I'd give his advise a good d long thought.
[OP]
Member
Ah, yes. Thank you. I should know that.
"I've cut the dang thing three times and it's STILL too darn short"
Name withheld to protect the guilty
Stew Hagerty
Member
Sorry, I missed this before and just noticed it now while looking in this thread for somebody else's comment...
Given your situation I wouldn't recommend a 4-1/2 at all, much less one with a high-angle frog. I have decent arm strength and overall stamina and I still find the cutting effort fairly noticeable with the 4-1/2 at 55 deg. I'd also be a little concerned about the Veritas bevel-up smoother as that's almost as wide as a 4-1/2. The custom #4 and low-angle smoother (2" blade, same as a #4) might be a better option.
If must have high cutting angles then you should look at the #3 as Derek suggests or the Veritas small bevel-up smoother (a 3-sized BU plane). Both of those have 1.75" blades and will enable you to use high pitches with reasonable effort.
You haven't mentioned whether you have a Jack, but with your strength issue you might be a good candidate for a 5-1/4, which is a slightly shortened Jack with #3-sized blade. Somebody stated in another thread that L-N still makes those on a special-order basis. The Veritas 5-1/4W is the same width as a regular Jack so it doesn't help with the strength issue (though I have one and it's a great plane).
The other thing to keep in mind is camber - if you're willing to get creative with cutting-edge shape then you can reduce the effective width and therefore the effort associated with any plane. This takes moderately advanced sharpening techniques though, esp. if you also want a ~flat shaving in the middle of the plane (it can be done, but it's not simple).
Last edited by Patrick Chase; 02-26-2016 at 7:37 PM.
Contributor
Stew, ditto on all that Patrick recommends, especially the LV Small BUS. This is a #3 sized bevel up smoother. With its low centre of gravity, and low centre of effort, it is lighter to push that a LN#3 with a high angle frog.
This pic was taken several years ago (when I was timing different drawer-making techniques, hence the watch in the background, and the old bench) ...
Alongside a LN #3 (with 55 degree frog) ...
Regards from Perth
Derek
Last edited by Derek Cohen; 02-26-2016 at 8:02 PM.
[OP]
Member
Thank you Patrick,
I actually have several Jack Planes. I have 3 vintage Stanleys: #5 1/4, #5, & #5 1/2. I also have the new style Stanley Premium Line #62 LA Jack that came out 8-9 years ago. I used to use the 62 as a shooting plane, until I got my dedicated shooter from LV. I use the #5 with a moderately cambered iron all the time, Although I do use the #5 1/2 on occasion, few of the projects I typically find on my bench are of the size that necessitates its use. As for the #5 1/4, I did tune it up and give it a test drive after I first got it, but I don't believe that I've touched it since.
Derek,
I have LV's LA Block Plane with the optional tote & knob. It's blade is just 1/8" narrower than the small BU Smoother. In addition to the standard 25 degree iron I also have the 38 degree, 50, degree, and the 38 degree toothing blades. I have used the 38 and even the 50 degree blades before without any problem. Although, granted, I did not go at it for hours with one of those blades in. In fact, when ever I would get frustrated with the Primus, I would almost always pop in one of the high angle blades and start making shavings. Two things though, it is a bit small, and I work with figured woods a lot so I want a dedicated high angle plane that I can just grab and go.
Since I started this thread, I had a conversation with Rob Lee and I ended up ordering the larger BU Smoother (which actually just arrived and I am about to go unpack it). He told me to try it out and if I don't like it, we can try a different plane until I find one that works well for me. Thank you Rob! So I will let you guys know what I think. Off to smooth some wood...
"I've cut the dang thing three times and it's STILL too darn short"
Name withheld to protect the guilty
Stew Hagerty
Contributor
Wonderful.He told me to try it out and if I don't like it, we can try a different plane until I find one that works well for me. Thank you Rob! So I will let you guys know what I think. Off to smooth some wood...
What is that old saying? "If you can't bring the customer to the showroom take the showroom to the customer… "
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
[OP]
Member
Well,with nothing but a quick stropping only it woks great on both curly maple and figured mahogany. It very easily dials in from a heavier .0025" shaving to whispy thin .001" pillows. Yes, it is a bit harder to push than either my vintage #'s 4 or 4 1/2 but neither can pull shavings and leave a silky smooth finish on this curly maple like this does.
Just for kicks, i pulled out some birdseye and some beautiful quilted maple and it whizzed right through those as well, leaving that same silky smooth surface. When i have a chance, I'm going to pull out some figured jatoba that i have squirreled away and see how it does on that rock hard, grain switching stuff.
So far I'm giving this LV BU Smoother with a PM-V11 iron a big thumbs up!
Hmmm, for some reason it won't upload a photo from my phone. I'll post one later.
Oh.... And another huge thank you to Rob Lee!
Last edited by Stew Hagerty; 03-01-2016 at 6:17 PM.
"I've cut the dang thing three times and it's STILL too darn short"
Name withheld to protect the guilty
Stew Hagerty
Member
I take it that this is with the 38-deg iron (50-deg cutting angle) that comes with the plane? Stropping might have added a couple more deg depending on the surface and your technique. It's probably safe to say that you were somewhere between 50 and 55 deg net cutting angle.
[OP]
Member
Yes, I was using the standard 38 degree iron. I strop on the rough side of one of T4WW's "Genuine Horse Butt" strops. I have green compound that has been rubbed into one side over the 6 or 7 years I've had it and I spritz the smooth side with some DMT Dia-Spray every 2 or 3 times I use it. You're probably right about the angle. I typically strop just up a hair from the honing angle. I try to match or just excede whatever the primary bevel,or microbevel, I have on a particular iron (I typically have not used a microbevel on a bevel up iron).
"I've cut the dang thing three times and it's STILL too darn short"
Name withheld to protect the guilty
Stew Hagerty
[OP]
Member
Ok, here we go. Trying again to upload the photos.
Curly Maple:
ForumRunner_20160301_210900.jpg
Figured Mahogany:
ForumRunner_20160301_210912.jpg
And FYI, this is me:
ForumRunner_20160301_211040.jpg
"I've cut the dang thing three times and it's STILL too darn short"
Name withheld to protect the guilty
Stew Hagerty
Member
Yep, nice results indeed. I have that plane and as Derek has said a number of times it produces reliably good surfaces with a minimum of fuss. You may be able to do a hair better with a BD bench plane and close-set cap iron, but that's a considerably more finicky setup.
If you keep measuring shavings like that you're going to need to add one of these, though (sorry, I know I've already used that one here on SMC, but it's just too hard to pass up).
Last edited by Patrick Chase; 03-01-2016 at 9:35 PM.
Member
At our hand tool club we recently recently discussed a member's new custom Veritas plane, a #5 size jack. He passed it around and it definitely is a beautifully made and designed tool. It also is impressively heavy, which most of the group thought was a positive attribute in a plane. Overall, the owner of this plane has found it to be a good tool so far. He commented that he has not seen any real benefit from the set screws that keep the blade centered in the mouth of the plane. He feels that when loosened enough to allow for blade adjustments, the two screws might as well not be there. He also expressed a level of annoyance with the hex screw that secures the cap iron to the plane iron. Perhaps it just "different" from what he is accustomed to, but having to keep a small hex wrench around the bench was not to his liking. The choice of handle shapes and blade metallurgy options were big pluses. Members were generally much more familiar with LV's bevel-up planes than they were with this new series.
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