Fiber users, I have some questions-

[Kev Williams]

I keep getting requests for work lately where a fiber laser would definitely come in handy. So I've been doing some research, and I found a machine at what I think is a really good price--

this machine has a 110x110mm working area (I'd like bigger but I'll work), and is available in 10, 20 or 30 watt versions, and has an optional rotary which I'd want. I wouldn't bother with a 10w machine, but a 20w may work fine, and I know a 30w would work great.

my main needs would be engraving steel and stainless steel from .003" to .015" deep. Probably no aluminum other than maybe etching some some anodized. I'm sure I'd find other uses but for now...

Because of the nature of my work environment, and because I have umpteen machines at the ready, I rarely ever have to wait on one machine to do another job on it. So, "really fast" engraving isn't all that necessary, as long as the machine is capable of the engraving I need without taking TOO long to do it...

That said-- The 30w version of the machine I'm looking at is a $2100 premium over the 20w version. So what I'm hoping for here are some time estimates...

I've read a lot of you guy's fiber engraving times on these pages, but as a for instance:
About how much time to laser etch KEVIN WILLIAMS in 1/8" high characters approx .005" deep in stainless, at 20w and at 30w?

My IS400 will be paid for in April, so I'm likely looking to pull the trigger on one of these fibers, your advice is appreciated!

[Keith Winter]

No brainer there Kev for $2100 you are increasing your laser power dramatically I'd do the upgrade

[Gary Hair]

Kev - when you consider all the variables: speed, power, frequency, hatch angle, hatch type, number of hatches, focus, font, etc., etc., you will realize that you are asking for the impossible answer. Besides all that, I am fairly certain that nobody here has the capability of measuring .005" depth in text, not to any degree of accuracy anyway.

Go for the 30 watt machine, you won't regret it!

[matthew knott]

They will both be around 1mJ lasers , in use you really won't greatly notice the difference between a 20 and a 30 , a 20 watt will do everything a 30 will and in most cases times won't be greatly different, as pointed out its not a great deal of money to upgrade but what % increase in $ over the 20 watt. If it was my money and I had the total budget for a 30 watt I would get the 20 watt and some choice extras, for example rotary axis, a decent height z axis, a selection of lenses 100mm,163mm & a 254mm & focus finder! You will be able to do lots more with this than just an extra 10 watts of power. Of course if budget isn't an issue buy the extras and a 30 watt !!!! Happy days

[Kev Williams]

...I am fairly certain that nobody here has the capability of measuring .005" depth in text, not to any degree of accuracy anyway.

There's always your eyes!

I use this plate to show engineers who call out for 1/8" characters to be engraved .020" deep. They don't seem to realize how deep .020" actually is! I guess they can't measure it either, this shows them.

-these letters are 3/16" tall, all done with the same tool, 6-line helvetica...

[Scott Challoner]

Nobody's ever said, "I wish I would have gotten the smaller laser." I got my 30W CO2 10 years go and regularly wish I had gone with 80W. I went with 30W for my fiber in the hopes that it will fill future needs as well as the present ones. My two cents.

[Kev Williams]

I'm an avid boater, and no boat owner ever complained about the bigger engine either!

One of the reasons I've held off on a galvo fiber is the (to me) ridiculously small typical 4x4" engraving area. And the 7x7's or similar, I simply can't justify the extra price. But I've come to find I could do quite a bit with a 4x4.

The unit I'm looking at is a 'portable', I've seen several different brands of basically the same unit for sale, mostly from US based dealers. Looks like a large desktop computer with a scissor-table in front and lens on top. I'm sure many of you will be familiar with it, if not own one. Not many frills, but I don't need frills. It simply needs to work like a fiber laser. The beauty of the one I've found is, it costs MUCH less (including the trip here) than any of the US dealer-sold units I've found. Which means, the bump from 20 to 30 watts is actually a substantial increase.

Most of you know I own several machines. Two reasons for this:

Reason (1): Nearly every time I've bought a 'new fangled' machine, and worried that I'd find enough work to pay for it, I've ended up buying a second. Back in '81, spending $16 large for a computerized C-2000 engraver was a big risk- but it worked out SO well (it earned its monthly lease payment with less than 2 days work) that a year later we bought a second one. In '89 I needed bigger, so I bought a new V5000-XT. Shortly afterwards, I bought a second one used. In 2002 I bought the little ULS laser, and a year and a half later came the LS900... etc etc...

Reason (2): It's been my experience over the years that 2 or 3 machines is much more productive than 1 or 2 machines, regardless of their speed. Because no matter how fast a machine is working, it can't do job2 until job1 is done. And standing around waiting for machines to finish before starting the next job is excruciating. To do job2, it helps to have a machine2...

SO- my thought process here is this- If the bump for a 30w unit won't get me a substantial increase in productivity, and some of the replies lean that way, then I would rather save the $2100, towards a second machine I may end up buying if the first one works out well. And if the 20w works well enough to suit me and the workload justifies it, I would likely buy TWO more 20w machines rather than ONE 30w (or higher) machine. (see reason 2 above )

I very much appreciate everyone's input!

[tommy suriady]

0.005"=0.127mm with 20watt is easy. we regularly mark to 0.3mm deep on brass and stainless watch dials. that is 31-42mm diameter in about 10 minutes. we can mark through 0.5mm plate in 15 minutes. so we kinda guess 10 minutes is 0.3mm.

usually our customers would fill the insides with paint and then scrap and sand the surface. as long as the paint stays, it is good enough. so we dont really know if it is really 0.3mm deep. but we know it is 0.5 mm deep when we have marked through the plate which is 0.5mm thick.

so if you get a 0.3mm thick plate and mark and time it till it is penetrated, then we will have the time and setting for it to work anywhere else on the same materials. just thought of this as i am typing this. hahaha.

the problem is trying to keep the pit clean, because customers would want a clean shiny pit. if you use high power laser, the pit will be filled with oxides. and oxides have higher melting and evaporation point that unoxidized metal. meaning you will have to blast the surface with low freq and then sweep it with high freq, then again with low freq and sweep again and repeat till you get deep enough.

if you use high power, low freq all the way, you would get very ugly marking with the pit filled with messy debris which will drop out when it feels like to. the oxide will mix with paint to cause very muted color and the paint will come off because it doesnt stick well inside the pit.

we have staff sitting infront of our fiber machines figuring out how to do everything with them because every customers have their different demands on different things.

dont forget MOPA lasers. it seems better at getting depth on most materials as it has higher peak power, despite the similar mean power. we have one and we are still exploring the possibilities.

[Keith Winter]

In that case Kev I'd change my recommendation to buy the 20w if 20w will do what you want and you land on buying two more and have th room for two more. Makes sense.

I'm an avid boater, and no boat owner ever complained about the bigger engine either!

One of the reasons I've held off on a galvo fiber is the (to me) ridiculously small typical 4x4" engraving area. And the 7x7's or similar, I simply can't justify the extra price. But I've come to find I could do quite a bit with a 4x4.

The unit I'm looking at is a 'portable', I've seen several different brands of basically the same unit for sale, mostly from US based dealers. Looks like a large desktop computer with a scissor-table in front and lens on top. I'm sure many of you will be familiar with it, if not own one. Not many frills, but I don't need frills. It simply needs to work like a fiber laser. The beauty of the one I've found is, it costs MUCH less (including the trip here) than any of the US dealer-sold units I've found. Which means, the bump from 20 to 30 watts is actually a substantial increase.

Most of you know I own several machines. Two reasons for this:

Reason (1): Nearly every time I've bought a 'new fangled' machine, and worried that I'd find enough work to pay for it, I've ended up buying a second. Back in '81, spending $16 large for a computerized C-2000 engraver was a big risk- but it worked out SO well (it earned its monthly lease payment with less than 2 days work) that a year later we bought a second one. In '89 I needed bigger, so I bought a new V5000-XT. Shortly afterwards, I bought a second one used. In 2002 I bought the little ULS laser, and a year and a half later came the LS900... etc etc...

Reason (2): It's been my experience over the years that 2 or 3 machines is much more productive than 1 or 2 machines, regardless of their speed. Because no matter how fast a machine is working, it can't do job2 until job1 is done. And standing around waiting for machines to finish before starting the next job is excruciating. To do job2, it helps to have a machine2...

SO- my thought process here is this- If the bump for a 30w unit won't get me a substantial increase in productivity, and some of the replies lean that way, then I would rather save the $2100, towards a second machine I may end up buying if the first one works out well. And if the 20w works well enough to suit me and the workload justifies it, I would likely buy TWO more 20w machines rather than ONE 30w (or higher) machine. (see reason 2 above )

I very much appreciate everyone's input!

[Kev Williams]

Thanks again everyone-- for all your input! I'm still exploring options, trying to best figure out how big a limb I'm willing to go out on!