What Makes a Bronze Plane better than a Cast Iron plane?

[Joe Beaulieu]

I recently saw a post on the LJ forum where a guy said he loved many of his hand tools, but the one that stood out the most was his bronze #4 LN Smoother. I own a bunch of LN and LV planes, as well as several Bedrock versions of Stanley planes, but I do not own a bronze bodied plane. I have seen people swear by them here and on other boards. Why? What is the appeal? Just curious.

Joe

[Patrick Chase]

I recently saw a post on the LJ forum where a guy said he loved many of his hand tools, but the one that stood out the most was his bronze #4 LN Smoother. I own a bunch of LN and LV planes, as well as several Bedrock versions of Stanley planes, but I do not own a bronze bodied plane. I have seen people swear by them here and on other boards. Why? What is the appeal? Just curious.

Joe

I think that the subject line of this post presupposes something that's actually open to debate, namely the assertion that bronze *is* better. In my opinion bronze is over-rated as a material for planes, and I say that as the owner of L-N #2, #8, and #10-1/2 planes. The #2 has a bronze casting, while the other 2 both have bronze frogs and lever caps.

Manganese-Bronze alloys like the one L-N uses have 3 major objective benefits, though the practical importance of each is open to debate:

1. Strength. IIRC L-N's alloy has about 2.5x higher yield strength than ductile iron. I personally don't think this matters - parts that carry cutting loads tend to be steel (which is stronger still), so IMO you don't gain all that much by having a stronger casting. Note that this would be most beneficial in larger planes, and yet L-N makes those with iron castings...

2. Density. L-N's alloy is about 15% more dense than cast ductile iron, so if you're one of those people who thinks that heavier planes are inherently better this might be perceived as an advantage.

3. Bronze is much more corrosion resistant. This is by far the most valid of the 3, though it's really not very hard to keep iron planes rust-free so even this is of somewhat limited benefit.

[steven c newman]

Wasn't there a reason why the Bronze Age ended when people started to forge iron.......?

[Tony Wilkins]

I think that the subject line of this post presupposes something that's actually open to debate, namely the assertion that bronze *is* better. In my opinion bronze is over-rated as a material for planes, and I say that as the owner of L-N #2, #8, and #10-1/2 planes. The #2 has a bronze casting, while the other 2 both have bronze frogs and lever caps.

Manganese-Bronze alloys like the one L-N uses have 3 major objective benefits, though the practical importance of each is open to debate:

1. Strength. IIRC L-N's alloy has about 2.5x higher yield strength than ductile iron. I personally don't think this matters - parts that carry cutting loads tend to be steel (which is stronger still), so IMO you don't gain all that much by having a stronger casting. Note that this would be most beneficial in larger planes, and yet L-N makes those with iron castings...

2. Density. L-N's alloy is about 15% more dense than cast ductile iron, so if you're one of those people who thinks that heavier planes are inherently better this might be perceived as an advantage.

3. Bronze is much more corrosion resistant. This is by far the most valid of the 3, though it's really not very hard to keep iron planes rust-free so even this is of somewhat limited benefit.

You forgot #4 - licking them to keep California law makers busy protecting us from all the evils of the world.

i have an LN bronze 4 and I do appreciate the weight as a smoother. If I drop it I might like your first point. Given the trouble I have keeping rust at bay on my LN 7 I do appreciate #3.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Corrosion resistance, weight, and good looks; in that order. I'm not saying I care about the latter, but certainly a lot of folks do choose bronze for the look so I included that... Much the same with cocobolo totes versus cherry. 99% of the reason I choose bronze is for corrosion resistance. The other factors are added bonuses.

Patric Chase, I disagree on keeping iron planes rust free. I live in the tropics and would trade every plane for an equal in bronze if I could. Oh the time I would save in tool care. My bronze LN's live in the bench. The other planes live in plane socks in a drawer with camphor blocks. Periodically I have "plane tune-up day" where I remove light rust. I am sure folks up north that deal with hot to cold condensation would also disagree.

I prefer a heavy plane, and it does have its virtues when planing tough grain, but don't get me wrong- sharpness and setup are far more important than weight. Japanese and other wooden planes by comparison can be very lightweight and get amazing results, so I am not saying a plane HAS to be heavy, but I personally like a nice hefty plane. That said, it works on a bell curve and after a 4 or 4 1/2 the weight becomes too cumbersome, which I believe is part of the reason LN never made any bronze planes beyond the 4 1/2. I have heard that casting difficulties and cost are another reason.

I am am not into bling, but I would be telling a lie if I said I didn't occasionally just pick up one of my bronze LN planes and admire the beauty of it. It's not a part of the buying decision for me, but certainly a plus. I guess it is like my wife- I married her because she is kind, smart, caring, and an all-around great person and best friend, but she is also nice to look at. :-)

[Jim Koepke]

I own a bunch of LN and LV planes, as well as several Bedrock versions of Stanley planes, but I do not own a bronze bodied plane. I have seen people swear by them here and on other boards. Why? What is the appeal? Just curious.

Joe, I lived most of my years in different parts of the SF East Bay Area. Not a one of them had the humidity problems I have experienced here in the Pacific Northwest. Once or twice a year I need to take every plane off the shelf and wipe it down because of weather shifts causing lots of condensation on my tools. It is also hard on everything else. I have to scrape lichen off of the windshield wipers of the vehicles.

Otherwise what Malcolm said sums it up pretty good. There are a lot of folks living in wet areas.

Only one of my planes is bronze. It is the one from LN that is less expensive by a lot compared to an old one from Stanley.

jtk

[Pat Barry]

For the manufacturer, cost is certainly a major consideration. Cast steel is significantly less expensive than bronze. I think this is the single biggest reason that factories such as Stanley went to cast iron. This cost savings gets passed along to the consumer of course and helps to generate more sales. The downside of corrosion is left to the user to manage.

[Allan Speers]

#1: Because they're PURDY.

#2: Rust resistance.


Definitely i that order, and I'm not ashamed to say it.

[Chris Hachet]

#1: Because they're PURDY.

#2: Rust resistance.


Definitely i that order, and I'm not ashamed to say it.

Given that I spend several hours a week at my work bench, a little bench bling is not a bad thing, ya know.....!

[Chris Fournier]

Bronze has attributes which are different than Ductile CI, I don't consider it to be "better than" however. It is flashy and complements the other components of a handtool from an aesthetics standpoint.

[Zach Dillinger]

It's pretty.

[Patrick Chase]

Wasn't there a reason why the Bronze Age ended when people started to forge iron.......?

They didn't have 86x00 bronze back then, or else they might have waited another couple millenia to switch, until they figured out steel.

[Patrick Chase]

Joe, I lived most of my years in different parts of the SF East Bay Area. Not a one of them had the humidity problems I have experienced here in the Pacific Northwest. Once or twice a year I need to take every plane off the shelf and wipe it down because of weather shifts causing lots of condensation on my tools. It is also hard on everything else. I have to scrape lichen off of the windshield wipers of the vehicles.

You're exactly right. I live in the East Bay now, and before that I lived in San Diego (an even more rust-hostile climate, as hard as that may be to believe) for 24 years. There's a reason why you see a lot more rust-free classic cars around here. A long time ago I lived in the Portland area (Vancouver, WA) for several months for work, and I can understand why corrosion would be a much bigger problem there...

[Joe Tilson]

I have had a Stanley 102 for a while now, and like it. I bought the LN 102 a few months ago, and like it, but I always go to the Stanley because that LN is so nice just to look at, for now. I'm sure to get over it, but like Allan says,"they are just plain purdy". The feel is warmer too.

[john zulu]

I like bronze planes but it cost plenty. Here are a few reasons I bought it

1) Rust free
2) More weight.
3) Beauty ? When it is shiny.....