encouraging my small sawyer

[Tony Wilkins]

My 7 year old loves to come out to the shop with me. He usually likes to mark, measure, use my push drill, and plane a bit with my 42mm kanna.


last time out he wanted to try sawing. I got a piece of poplar and clamped to my (now really his) workmate. I started him out with my Bad Axe 12" hybrid carcasse/dt saw. He struggled with the weight of it. I got down my 210mm Gyokucho ryoba and he sawed somewhat better with it. so I'm wondering how best to kindle the handtool sawyer in him now. I've thought about getting him a Bad Axe American Kid saw. Or should I just let him keep going with the ryoba? Or is there a way to help him with the BAT 12"?


BTW, next he says he wants to try chisels!

[Jim Koepke]

Saws and chisels?

Sounds like dovetails to me.

Does he have anything he would like to keep in a box?

jtk

[Nicholas Lawrence]

My kids have used a "gents" style dovetail saw I think I picked up at Ace hardware. My theory was a smaller saw and a finer toothline would be easier for a kid to handle.

[Pat Barry]

My 7 year old loves to come out to the shop with me. He usually likes to mark, measure, use my push drill, and plane a bit with my 42mm kanna.


last time out he wanted to try sawing. I got a piece of poplar and clamped to my (now really his) workmate. I started him out with my Bad Axe 12" hybrid carcasse/dt saw. He struggled with the weight of it. I got down my 210mm Gyokucho ryoba and he sawed somewhat better with it. so I'm wondering how best to kindle the handtool sawyer in him now. I've thought about getting him a Bad Axe American Kid saw. Or should I just let him keep going with the ryoba? Or is there a way to help him with the BAT 12"?


BTW, next he says he wants to try chisels!

He will learn to 'feel the force' so to speak and let the weight of the saw help him do his work. I think letting him use your best tools is a great starting point for him. No point in getting him frustrated by cheap tools, you are after all trying to encourage him, right?

[Ron Bontz]

Just my 2 bits. I think the most important thing you could do is to build a work bench actually his size. Something sturdy with perhaps adjustable legs. Have him help and teach him the proper way to size a work bench for himself. The weight of a smaller saw is not that much different than an adult saw and as mentioned he will learn to, properly, let the saw do the work. The hand sizing is another story. Buy a rubber matt for around his work area. Solid handle or plywood handle, sooner or later the saw handle will see the floor. By the way, an acquaintance of mine has a son that has been cutting dovetails since about 4y/o. Japanese saw. Just switched to a western saw this past year. 6 y/o I think. They learn quick.

[Chris Hachet]

Just my 2 bits. I think the most important thing you could do is to build a work bench actually his size. Something sturdy with perhaps adjustable legs. Have him help and teach him the proper way to size a work bench for himself. The weight of a smaller saw is not that much different than an adult saw and as mentioned he will learn to, properly, let the saw do the work. The hand sizing is another story. Buy a rubber matt for around his work area. Solid handle or plywood handle, sooner or later the saw handle will see the floor. By the way, an acquaintance of mine has a son that has been cutting dovetails since about 4y/o. Japanese saw. Just switched to a western saw this past year. 6 y/o I think. They learn quick.

I was thinking the same thing with a Bench....would also get him tools that are distinctly his. My sons are finding woodworking later in life. As a 15 year old we needed to build several park benches for my son Daniel's Eagle Scout project, he now wants to build a greenhouse as a school project. My 22 year old plays guitar and he and his friend Brian are giving electric guitars a try, he wants to also build an acoustic guitar. Niether of them have an interest in furniture yet....

However, the 22 eyar old has a girlfriend that keeps taking him ring shopping and hinting about an apartment or a house together, so methinks he will need furniture sooner rather than later. He would also like to build a computer desk together.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I've thought about getting him a Bad Axe American Kid saw.

I think that the number one item is.... does the handle fit his hand? While sawing straight, I expect that the primary weight is supported by the wood. I now have two saws with small kid sized handles. The hang angle on one of them causes a more aggressive cut than the other.

My youngest daughter requires careful supervision when she cuts since she has a tendency to push to the side and try to bend the saw (age 7, and not well coordinated). My oldest daughter does not do this (age 10 and has always been super coordinated).

One person suggested that a coping saw is a nice saw to start with.

[Stew Denton]

Hi Tony,

My younger grandson wanted to use a saw after seeing me use one. I let him try my gents dovetail saw, but at the age of 5 the gents saw was still too much for him. The next time they visited, I was ready, and had figured a way to clamp onto the legs of one of my sawhorses so that the cutting height was just right for him.

The dovetail saw was still too much, as I suspected it might be, so I had a coping saw at the ready, and fitted with a medium tooth count blade. Also at hand were some fairly soft 1X2s for him to saw up. The coping saw was just the ticket, and I let him have at it, but was very close at hand giving advise and watching him. (Read that standing right there watching him closely so as to prevent his hurting himself.) I did pencil mark the 1X2s with a square so that he would have a square line to try to cut to. I did have to remind him to try to cut along the line. Fundamentally all he wanted to do was cut through the 1X2 as fast as possible, so I had to remind him about the line several times.

I didn't pester him too much, however, because from my perspective it was more important for him to have fun, and thus have a good experience with woodworking, than for him to be nagged about cutting to a line.

He had a great time, and when I reminded him that the line was there to guide his cut, and he paid attention to it, he did a reasonably good job of staying on the line.

I had enough 1x2s that I thought he would run out of interest before I ran out of 1x2s. As it turned out his mother decided when it was time for him to quit, but he was about ready to quit anyway. I did end up with about a dozen or more 2" sections of 1x2 for clamp blocks.

At any rate, the coping saw was much much easier for him to use than the dovetail saw. The very narrow blade is much easier to push through the wood than is the thicker dovetail saw. Don't choose a coarse blade, as it is harder to start, and don't use a really fine blade because it will cut very slowly. Instead use a medium tooth blade.

Based on my limited experience I highly recommend starting a small child using a coping saw. It is easier for them to saw with, and it starts easier too. Also, as mentioned above, set the height up so it is a good height for him. Finally I clamped the 1x2s so that there was no wiggle. All he had to concentrate on was using the saw.

Stew

[Patrick Chase]

My 7 year old loves to come out to the shop with me. He usually likes to mark, measure, use my push drill, and plane a bit with my 42mm kanna.


last time out he wanted to try sawing. I got a piece of poplar and clamped to my (now really his) workmate. I started him out with my Bad Axe 12" hybrid carcasse/dt saw. He struggled with the weight of it. I got down my 210mm Gyokucho ryoba and he sawed somewhat better with it. so I'm wondering how best to kindle the handtool sawyer in him now. I've thought about getting him a Bad Axe American Kid saw. Or should I just let him keep going with the ryoba? Or is there a way to help him with the BAT 12"?


BTW, next he says he wants to try chisels!

I don't think I'd give a 7 y/o a Bad Axe, not even the "American Kid" ones that Mark sells with plywood handles. They're too expensive, and the default filings are too aggressive.

A few thoughts come to mind:

- Zona craft saws. Cheap, small, easy to use

- Japanese detail saws like these

- A cheap-ish gent's saw as others have suggested, preferably with relaxed crosscut geometry. There are a bunch for around $20 from companies like Crown. I've let my 5 y/o play a little with a $50 Veritas crosscut gent's saw (22 tpi, 15 rake, 15 fleam), and he can almost manage it. Next year...

Make sure to stock up on Dermabond and butterfly bandages before you start with the chisels...

[Robert Hartmann]

Tony, great timing since I've been looking for saws for my kids (4 yr old daughter, 6 and 10 yr old sons). I've been reluctant to let them use my LN saws, but they are interested. They all have a hand drill I restored and other various tools. My 10 yr old likes using my chisels although I'm always a bit "anxious" as he does. I tried the vintage route, but they cost as much as my LN for a good one. I'm leaning towards the Veritas dovetail and crosscut saws (not the carcass). They have a 9 1/4 in blade, so not much bigger than the Bad Axe American Kid and at $69 each they are much cheaper. I considered a Japanese or Gent saw, but I want them to start out with a traditional western saw.

Just my thoughts, but the Veritas dovetail and crosscut seems a good start. I didn't see on their site if they have replacement handles, but I assume they do and with a single rod through the handle they should be easy to replace (for those occasional accelerations to the floor).

[Don Orr]

I agree with Robert about the Veritas saws. They would serve a youngster very well I think. Not too heavy, fairly fine tpi, repairable handles. You could even resize the handle for a smaller hand if you thought it would help. Good for you getting him started young.

[Javed Akhtar]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but when I was a kid and started showing an interest, my grandfather went to the local hardware store and bought a small-ish / cheap-ish ($10-ish) backsaw for me. Over the years he added to my tool collection, gradually improving the quality of anything he gifted me as I become more mature and skilled. But that first saw had its fair share of abuse, given my early age at the time.

[Pat Barry]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but when I was a kid and started showing an interest, my grandfather went to the local hardware store and bought a small-ish / cheap-ish ($10-ish) backsaw for me. Over the years he added to my tool collection, gradually improving the quality of anything he gifted me as I become more mature and skilled. But that first saw had its fair share of abuse, given my early age at the time.

You aren't missing anything from a practical point of view. Fact is Tony has some very special tools and he was trolling us about them

[Tony Wilkins]

You aren't missing anything from a practical point of view. Fact is Tony has some very special tools and he was trolling us about them

Special tools?

[Nick Stokes]

Coping saws are great for my near 6 year old. Also got him a Junior hacksaw when he was 4, coping saw when he was 5... He can cut well with them when the workholding is taken care of.

Got him a 12" backsaw, craftsman from the 70's. Light aluminum back. I filed it with a high rake angle, and he can cut great with it.

One day I looked over, and he had cut dovetails himself, he laid it out like lego's, and fit them together, marked and cut out the waste.

Kids will be interested in whatever dad does. And they can learn quick. Far quicker than dad's.