Suddenly very worried I've bitten off more than I can chew!!! Finishing cabinets!

[alice shockley]

My husband and I have decided to DIY remodel our kitchen and we're doing it on a shoestring. We've purchased these cabinets:
Unfinished Hickory Cabinets


They are special order, but they had one in the store and we were quite impressed with the construction for the price. They were really inexpensive, yet have solid wood fronts and doors and plywood (not pressed wood) boxes. But they are so inexpensive because they are unfinished. For instance, the plywood of the drawers and shelves shows the cut edge of the plywood. I know I'll need to buy that iron-on veneer edge binding for that and the wood has no finish (stain, poly, etc.).

We like the look of natural hickory, so we only want a clear coating, no stain. I thought, "How hard can it be?"

Yeah...

So...now I'm kind of freaking out about the finishing of the cabinets. The fact is, I've never stained or varnished anything in my life! What was I thinking?

Do I do the insides of the cabinets too? That never even occurred to me until this very moment!

So...it has to be easy and idiot-proof. I'd seen a wipe-on product from Minwax...I'd think wipe on would be easier than brush on, but is it a good product? Do you do multiple coats of finish, sanding in between? If anyone could help me, I'd really appreciate it. I don't want a high gloss - a nice satiny sheen is what I'm looking for and I don't want it to be yellowish, I want the wood to shine through. I'm actually kind of handy, so maybe I won't ruin it?

PLEASE HELP!

[Art Mann]

Your best chance at getting a professional finish without much experience is probably going to be using a wipe on polyurethane. You can buy it at big box stores or you can make your own by diluting brushing polyurethane 50/50 or so with mineral spirits. It is a slow method but it is almost foolproof. I have used wipe on poly in some demanding applications and found it to be durable and attractive. There are other resins besides polyurethane which can be wiped on but I have no experience with them.

[Jamie Buxton]

Finishing isn't all that hard. Anybody should be able to learn how to do it. The only hiccup is that you've picked a big project to learn on. You might consider buying some plywood or something, and learning on it before you tackle the actual cabinets.

Some answers to your specific questions...

Yes, iron-on edgebanding works okay. I'm not sure I've seen hickory, so that might be a bit of a search. I have a second-hand clothes iron I use to apply it -- $5 at a garage sale. You'll need a tool to trim the banding flush. The places that sell the banding are likely to have the tool, or you can buy it online. Caution -- you want to cut in the direction that doesn't rip the edge of the tape.

You're likely to want a power sander. The raw cabinets may or may not be sanded well enough for you, and you're likely to want to sand between some coats.

Typically the inside of cabinets is not finished. Exceptions are shelves -- either in the uppers or the base cabinets -- and the back of the uppers.

Varnish is a good choice for your finish. It is resistant to kitchen fluids. Brushing it on requires fewer coats than wiping it on, but wipe-on doesn't have the tip-marks and drips that brushing often leaves. I generally apply 2-3 brushed coats, then re-sand to remove the defects, then apply several coats of wipe-on.

Varnish sheen is established by the finish you buy. You're likely to be able to find it in gloss, semi-gloss, and satin. As to what exactly those terms mean...well maybe that's one of those things you learn while you're practicing on that sheet of scrap plywood.

[Sam Murdoch]

A few more suggestions/comments:

• Edge banding - just as Jamie wrote you can apply with an old iron and trim with a handheld tool. I've had a plastic tool with a couple of built in cutters that I have used with great results for many years. Won't be very expensive. After using the tool I also break off any residual glue with 100 grit sandpaper on a wood block. I push vigorously in one direction on a diagonal. The edge cleans up nicely and is softened to eliminate the sharp edges as you clean off the glue. Longer to describe than to do.

• Finishing the interiors - lots of extra work. My choice would be to buy some rolls of nice shelf covering - not the contact paper kind that your mother (grandmother) might have used but the rubbery stay put stuff (not unlike thin thin carpet pad) that is available on line or from box stores or places like Bed Bath & Beyond.

• Brush marks - Applying with a brush builds a finish faster than the wipe on but does require a bit of care for keeping dust off (as it dries) and avoiding sags or streaks. Keeping the dust off means having a good vacuum cleaner that doesn't blow dust around, keeping yourself - clothing and hair - free from dust before you apply the finish and using tac rags between coats (even if it looks dust free).

As for brush marks (different than sags or streaks) let them be. Shows you have a hand applied finish. Consider it a mark of distinction. Still - don't apply the finish too generously. You need a wet edge but not a soaking wet edge that will drip and sag as the finish dries. Best to lay your doors down flat. I actually don't mind finishing doors as they hang on their hinges (gives me full access and the doors are not taking up lots of bench space or catching dust as it settles onto the flat surfaces) but you need to develop a feel for hand applying varnish on vertical surfaces.

Good luck. Be patient and have fun.

[Mel Fulks]

You are likely to end up with the same number of different colors as the number of different colors shown in the link. A pro would charge a fortune to conjure up one even color. Consider paint.

[alice shockley]

You are likely to end up with the same number of different colors as the number of different colors shown in the link. A pro would charge a fortune to conjure up one even color. Consider paint.

Do you mean the variation in the wood? I thought that was the whole idea of natural hickory. That's why we want a clear coating instead of paint. This is the look we're going for: Hickory-Kitchen-Cabinets-With-Granite-Countertops.jpg


Thank you all gentlemen. We'll get them before demolition ever starts and we have either the garage or unfinished basement to do them in, so I can do the finish a week or so before we put them up. That way I should be able to turn them face up for the most part and I can remove the doors, as we'll be doing that to put on the knobs and pulls anyway. I think I can keep the dust to a minimum in either place.

Is there a particular brand you recommend? And is there a benefit of using varnish over poly or visa versa? I don't want them really shiny.

[Jamie Buxton]

Do you mean the variation in the wood? I thought that was the whole idea of natural hickory. That's why we want a clear coating instead of paint. This is the look we're going for:


Thank you all gentlemen. We'll get them before demolition ever starts and we have either the garage or unfinished basement to do them in, so I can do the finish a week or so before we put them up. That way I should be able to turn them face up for the most part and I can remove the doors, as we'll be doing that to put on the knobs and pulls anyway. I think I can keep the dust to a minimum in either place.

Is there a particular brand you recommend? And is there a benefit of using varnish over poly or visa versa? I don't want them really shiny.

Hickory is a fine hardwood. I like it a lot. However, the sap wood is quite a bit lighter than the heartwood, and some people don't like that. I think that's why hickory is rather affordable -- supply and demand. If you like that color variation, you're home free.

"Poly vs varnish"... Varnish can be made from many different resins. One of them is polyurethane. That is, "poly" is one kind of varnish. (Furthermore, no manufacturer makes a 100% polyurethane varnish. Successive coats would not bond well. Virtually all "poly" varnishes have a lot of some other resin. And manufacturers never tell what the percentage is. So don't get too concerned about whether it says "poly" on the label. Do be concerned about the sheen -- gloss, semigloss, satin etc. And as I suggested in my first post, make some samples yourself to see what you like.)

[John K Jordan]

Do you mean the variation in the wood? I thought that was the whole idea of natural hickory. That's why we want a clear coating instead of paint.

We put in a kitchen full of custom hickory cabinets about a dozen years ago. We really like the look with the variation of light/dark in the wood. We specified this look and even had them rebuild a few panels that were to "even." Besides the cabinets we added a bar, shelves, and large pantry.

I did the design and installation and an 80 year old guy down the hill built and finished them. We had him apply a light stain for a slightly warmer tone - if I remember correctly it was Minwax Ipswitch Pine.

We chose a satin finish which I much prefer over glossy. I think they used spray lacquer for the finish but that takes a special place, equipment, and experience. I think you will be happy with the poly. It is really a very simple finish to apply and almost impossible to mess up!

BTW, for edging the plywood shelves, they cut and fastened 1/2" thick strips of solid hickory, my preferred way to cover plywood edges. Sometimes iron-on edging doesn't apply smoothly or loosens with time. It wouldn't be hard to get some hickory strips cut to fit the shelves, assuming there is a little clearance for them behind the doors which is the usual method of construction. Solid strips can be glued on and held in place until the glue dries with clamps, weights, or a pin or finish nailer.

I found these old photos of the installation in progress. (Wall cabinets, shelves, and pantry are not shown in these pictures.) Things were a bit tricky since this is a timber frame house. My Lovely Bride of 46 years is still happy with the results, the most important thing!

P3191150_es.jpg P3191153_es.jpg

Just before the crowbar, planning in progress:

old_kitchen_PC041074_es.jpg

JKJ

[alice shockley]

Those are lovely cabinets Mr. Jordan - and a lovely bride as well.

I appreciate all the input. We'll take a look at some of the pre-finished hickory cabinets again and see if they have a tint we haven't noticed. I've read that varnish will give you a yellow/amber color - maybe over time? But if it's slight, that would be okay I suppose.

[John TenEyck]

OK, my advise is going to be radically different. First, I would never, ever finish the insides with an oil based varnish. It will stink for months, maybe years. Second, you mentioned you were concerned about the finishing yellowing. OK, don't use oil based varnish because they all will yellow over time. Use a water borne product. Third, don't use anything you can buy at HD, Lowes, etc.

So here's the radical part. Since you saved so much by buying unfinished cabinets you can afford to buy a spray outfit to finish them well. You can buy an Earlex 5500 for $300 and it will spray clear water bornes very well and you will be able to get a professional finish with just a little practice on some scrap. No brushed on finish, no matter how well done, will ever look as good as a sprayed one. Wiped on? Close, if you are really, really good. But read on, because you really want to spray them.

I recommend you consider General Finishes EnduroVar finish. You can spray or brush it. Spray the doors and drawer fronts, and use a foam brush to do the faceframes. Target Coatings probably makes a similar product. EnduroVar is as hard and durable as anything you can buy at the BORG. It is very clear, and ages very slowly. You can apply it over any stain as long as it's completely dry. It dries in less than an hour. You need to work in a low dust environment, and the temp. needs to be at least 65 F, but dust is much less of a concern than it is for oil based varnish which takes hours to set and all day to dry. It also has very low odor compared to oil based products.

If you want to apply something to the inside of the cabinets, I would wipe on a coat or two of SealCoat shellac - which you can buy at HD and is a great product. Wipe it on with a "rubber" (look that up). It dries in a few minutes. After it has dried for an hour or so, go over it with 600 grit sand paper, then apply another coat. When that is dry go over it again with 600 grit sandpaper and it will be baby butt smooth.

Don't think you are going to bang out these cabinets in a couple of days, even using water borne varnish and shellac. Take your time to sand them smooth before you apply the finish. Work carefully and cleanly, and it will pay off with a kitchen you will be proud of.

John

[alice shockley]

So here's the radical part. Since you saved so much by buying unfinished cabinets you can afford to buy a spray outfit to finish them well. You can buy an Earlex 5500 for $300 and it will spray clear water bornes very well and you will be able to get a professional finish with just a little practice on some scrap. No brushed on finish, no matter how well done, will ever look as good as a sprayed one. Wiped on? Close, if you are really, really good. But read on, because you really want to spray them.

John

Well I never thought of that...is it possible to rent one? Do you still do multiple coats, sanding between?

We do want the house to look nice. We are planning on selling in 3-5 years, but we want to have a nice kitchen in the meantime. Really, we're only changing the cabinets because I want a different stove! We've owned the house for 15 years and I planned on getting a new stove right away. What's there is a 27" drop in space saver range. Little did we know that there isn't enough cabinet to cut out to fit in a standard range and the estimates we got to try to rework the cabinets were almost the same cost as the new cabinets!

I digress. Sorry. The budget is really a shoe-string and I while apprehensive, the next cheapest "finished" cabinets were $1,000.00 more than these! But finishing them never really crossed my mind until after the order was placed.

[Ole Anderson]

I got you covered here! I built and finished my Hickory kitchen cabinets 3 years ago. What you want to do is get a couple quarts of Pratt and Lambert #38 satin varnish. Search the internet as it is not likely available locally. Dilute it 50/50 with mineral spirits. Wipe on about 5 coats with a half of a blue shop paper towel, wet but not runny. Let dry a half day between coats (weather dependent). After each coat it will feel slightly rougher, don't worry about it yet. After coat #4 hand sand it lightly with a block sander using 320 or 400 grit sandpaper, just enough to make it feel smooth again, then hit it with a fifth and final coat. Then very lightly go over it with the 400 grit again to remove any residual roughness until it is as smooth as a baby's behind. All done and it will look like and feel like finely sanded wood with no poly-plastic look. So far no yellowing like you see with poly and I didn't notice any odor problems, even right after they were installed. Oh, and I did the insides and outsides with the #38 and edge banded with hot melt Hickory, again available on the internet.

[Jamie Buxton]

... Dilute it 50/50 with mineral spirits. ....

Small caution here, which maybe only applies to California. The last gallon of paint thinner I bought just doesn't dry. I tired to make wipe-on varnish with it, and it just didn't dry right. If I set a little saucer of the paint thinner out, the level drops reasonably quickly until there's about half left. That remainder is kinda oily, and it just does not evaporate away, even after weeks of sitting there. I suspect VOC regulations, which gives me hope that other folks won't have this problem. At any rate, as I've been saying, I suggest you test and learn your finishing process before you tackle the cabinets.

[Mel Fulks]

Ole, gonna tell you something you already know...that color variation works a lot better on your carefully matched wider boards than it does on the Borg stuff.

[Ole Anderson]

Small caution here, which maybe only applies to California. The last gallon of paint thinner I bought just doesn't dry. I tired to make wipe-on varnish with it, and it just didn't dry right. If I set a little saucer of the paint thinner out, the level drops reasonably quickly until there's about half left. That remainder is kinda oily, and it just does not evaporate away, even after weeks of sitting there. I suspect VOC regulations, which gives me hope that other folks won't have this problem. At any rate, as I've been saying, I suggest you test and learn your finishing process before you tackle the cabinets.

You are absolutely correct, that explains why I had problems with the 50/50 drying properly on my pool table project. Would naphtha be a better choice? I like your saucer test.