The right chisel for doing dovetail work?

[Patrick Chase]

I use a 1/4 inch chisel to clean the corners of half blind dovetails. Or maybe a narrower chisel for drawers that are very delicate. I think I have only made "double lap" dovetails as an exercise, not in any work that I was paid for. This joint is pretty rare in traditional work.

Makes sense. At 1:8 the "overshoot" from using a 1/4 chisel would only be 0.75 mm, and that's tolerable for an internal non-show surface provided it only impacts a small percentage of the glueing area. Thank you!

I agree w.r.t. the usefulness of double-lap and secret miter DTs in commercial work. I doubt there are many customers willing to pay extra for something they can't even tell is there...

[Dave Beauchesne]

I really like my LN chisels for dovetailing.
The gap between 1/8" and 1/4" was too great: I got a 3/16" inch model and use it a lot.
Just my 2 cents----
Dave B

[Phil Mueller]

Thank you Patrick. Enlightened again.

[Derek Cohen]

My chisels go from 1/8 through 2 inches, but all are total cheapsters acquired over time. The only ones that are sort of OK are a big old Sorby I bought off eBay and a Witherby socket square edger I have from Dad's old box of mostly crap. The rest are of BORG-store quality.

Even so, I have a collection of good waterstones and a good guide, for sharpening, and when they are sharp enough with which to shave, I can execute some cuts OK with them.

But I plan on doing a lot of dovetailed drawerboxes, and want to step things up a notch, having recently bought a LN saw and some other gear.

Attached is one I have my eye on. A Stanley 1/4-incher that appears to have its edges beveled down to almost nothing, for doing that between-tails final chop.

Whaddya think?

Gene, it all depends on the type of dovetail you are making, and whether you want to do it the easy or hard way.

Most new dovetailers start off with through dovetails and saw the tails wide. Typically, this is about 1/2" at the baseline. With this much room, a square-sided 1/4" wide chisel may be angled to clean out the sidewall. Still, it is a hassle. Only those that are frugal and/or dedicated to olde-world historical roots will persevere with these chisels for this technique. It pays to have at least one chisel that has minimal lands to use face-on. Choose the chisel size according to the baseline width you aim for.


This example off the 'net ...

I use wider tails with carcases ...




It is especially when you make narrow tails, such as "London" dovetails, where the baseline may be 1/8-3/16" wide, that you really need to have chisels dedicated to dovetailing. My most used ones are 1/8", 3/16", and 1/4".

Most recent photo (baseline using 3/16") ...



Half-blind sockets (pins) do not require a chisel with minimal lands, unless you are using one to clear out the socket corners. A fishtail chisel is better for that purpose. Others prefer skew chisels. In general, the sockets have perpendicular sidewalls, and you could happily use a firmer chisel here. However, the tails will still require a chisel with minimal lands.

There is another aspect to chisels with minimal lands that should not be over-looked. They enable one to reach in closer to a sidewall - including non-dovetail sidewalls. In my subjective experience, they just feel more precision-like that firmer-style chisels.

With regard grinding the sides of Stanley (or other) chisels, this may be done by running the chisel along the face of a grinder. NOT FOR NOVICES. I have a set of vintage Stanley #750s that I modified, including adding longer handles (I also dislike the short handles) ...





Regards from Perth

Derek

[Robert Engel]

Gene,

Apologies if this is repetitive, but I believe you refer to the side bevel height, which other than steel quality, is the most critical aspect for a DT chisel. With super fine kerf's of high quality DT saws, this is critical to avoid bruising the corners of the tails.

I did quite a bit of research when upgrading my chisel set, finally settling on the Narex premium simply because at the time this was what I could afford. (The premiums have lower SBH than standard Narex). Quite a bit of work getting the backs flat, but as it turns out, they are quite serviceable and I have stuck with them.

I did purchase one Stanley 750 to test and have to say I was not impressed. First, the SBH is higher than expected. The chisel handle is too small and too light in my hands. My impression is the steel does not hold an edge as good as the Narex. This doesn't mean its a lousy chisel, I'm just giving you some considerations from personal experience.

FWW has an excellent chisel review. As I recall, the LN's and Ashley Liles have the lowest SBH's of any chisel listed. I believe the AL's also have an oval chisel which looks quite nice.

LN makes a single bevel fishtail chisel which is excellent for cleaning up 1/2 blind DT's.

[Daniel Rode]

I have a full set of the modern Stanley 750s. The lands are not particularly small. They may be slightly smaller than my Marples. I really like the 750s. In part, I like the size and shape of the handle. I find them very comfortable with excellent balance. I use these for chopping mortises as well as dovetails and anything else a chisel does.

For thin lands, you might take a look at the Ashley Iles chisels. They're not overly costly and have thin lands. They make a half round "dovetail" chisel set but I've never talked to anyone who uses those. The MK2 are the set I considered.

I've not had an issue using the 750s for any dovetails I've tried. Never really had trouble with the Marples either.

My biggest issue is 1/8" is too small and 1/4" is too big It seems that I constantly need a 3/16" chisel for thin pins but don't have one.

[Brian Holcombe]

I also enjoy very thin pins so I find a 1/8" chisel comes in handy. My preference is for Japanese chisels and for dovetail work I usually use Shinogi nomi, which are a triangular shape, or fishtail chisels. They come in handy for me because I find myself making short dovetails for frames and flaring them to 15 degrees in order for them to look like dovetails and not just incorrectly made box joints.

For casework I don't really need special chisels, but I will use Shinogi nomi because I have them handy.

For secret mitered dovetails I also find them not needed, but fishtail chisels come in handy.

Plan around your tools and you will save constantly searching for something.

[lowell holmes]

A lot of hobby woodworkers are overthinking and equate collection of tools to skills.

Simon

Use any chisel you have, just be careful to sharpen it and keep the bevel at 25 to 30 degrees.
Of course as time goes on, you will find a lot of chisels you like.

I chopped a lot of dovetails with Blue Chips. I like the feel of them, but prefer a harder steel. Lie Nielsen chisels are always a good choice. You don't have to buy a whole set. Old Stanley 750's are nice feeling, but sometimes the steel is not good.

[Daniel Rode]

Generally true. However, I have a handful of chisels (blue chips, in fact) sharpened to about 20*. They are most often used for making dovetails in pine. They are not so useful for mortises in oak The steep angle is the difference for me between cutting and tearing the pine end grain. The edge is more fragile that 25* - 30*but not as much as one might suspect.

Use any chisel you have, just be careful to sharpen it and keep the bevel at 25 to 30 degrees.
Of course as time goes on, you will find a lot of chisels you like.

[Warren Mickley]

I agree w.r.t. the usefulness of double-lap and secret miter DTs in commercial work. I doubt there are many customers willing to pay extra for something they can't even tell is there...

I don't think it is a matter of customers willing to pay. I never had a situation where I felt this construction was called for.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I think that there are two primary questions.

Question 1: Is the steel decent in your current chisels. If the steel makes the chisels unusable, then you need to replace it. I have only one chisel that is so soft I cannot use it. Pretty sure it is home made, and given my grandparents, it might not have been intended to for regular wood working.

Question 2: Do you have the sizes that you need? When I make smaller boxes, I break out my Veritas Detail Chisels.

http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/pag...35&cat=1,41504

I am a big fan of these chisels. Note that this includes a 1/16", 1/8", 1/4", and two 1/2" chisels. If your chisel is too big to fit, well, then it is not usable.

After you get past (1) and (2), you can start asking questions like, does it feel good in my hand, can I get a more suitable steel, etc.

[Simon MacGowen]

Generally true. However, I have a handful of chisels (blue chips, in fact) sharpened to about 20*. They are most often used for making dovetails in pine.

I seldom work with pine, mostly hardwood and always keep my chopping chisels at 30 degrees; paring 25 degrees. However, you rightly pointed out that for softwood like pine, a lower angle is better, though the edge may not hold as long. Rob Cosman spoke of that at a tradeshow and his chisels for pine as seen there were honed at 17 degrees. It was hard to argue with a DT guru like him who showed the difference between using his 17 degree chisel and a regular one honed at 25 right on the spot.

Simon

[steven c newman]

Yard sales, and a few antique stores I know about.

halfway.jpg
Some of the "main" chisels I used for dovetails..in Pine. Came out decently enough..
test fit.jpg
Butcher 1/8" and 3/16", New Haven 1/4" and a 1/4" Aldi chisel. The 1/8" was a $1 garage sale find.

[Adam Cruea]

The Stanley Sweethearts are decent chisels. I have the 8 piece set, and if I did it again, I would buy them again. I find them decently balanced and easy to work with. When hogging out dovetails, I generally don't hold the handle. For large work, I hold the chisel in my hand with about 3/4 of my palm down the length of the chisel so that where the socket is welded to the chisel sticks out of my fist. Usually, that's only when I'm giving something hell (for say, a 1 inch deep dovetail in hickory).

For finer work, I'll generally hold the chisel between my thumb and fore/middle fingers.

Anyway, that Stanley will work fine, though if you have the money, I'd get the 4 piece set (1/4, 1/2, 3/4, and 4/4, I think). The only bad thing about them is that they come dipped in lacquer and the tool marks on the back.