I could see my finger getting caught in one of those holes. Looks like someone was more concerned about form rather than function.
That breaks the rule of craftsman ship.
What a shame.
Contributor
I could see my finger getting caught in one of those holes. Looks like someone was more concerned about form rather than function.
That breaks the rule of craftsman ship.
What a shame.
Member
They sure raise a lot of heat! Just the ticket for me. I just ordered two of them, one for myself and one for my son.
Oh wait, I don't have a son...
Contributor
You could adopt me Kees! I'll be happy with an LN and save you some money!Originally Posted by Kees Heiden
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
“If you want to know what a man's like, take a good look at how he treats his inferiors, not his equals.”
Member
Only when you come over each Saterday to clean up my workshop
Member
On the contrary, I think it is likely that, having not secured even a toe-hold in the tool-users market, the value of the tools will plummet, and in 200 years they will be found in _only_ collections whose exclusivity is of the sort "first-edition rarely-touched XXI tools made in Portland, Oregon (then United States of America)".
Member
Lets wager. In 200 years we'll see who's right LOL. Edit: Which when I think about it, if you're in your 20's, you could quite possibly live that long.
Though, I read somewhere he's been at it for over 30 years. I'd say he has a toe at the very least.
Last edited by Brian Ashton; 05-09-2016 at 6:03 AM.
Sent from the bathtub on my Samsung Galaxy(C)S5 with waterproof Lifeproof Case(C), and spell check turned off!
Contributor
I like the Bridge City 6" rule because it has the measurements left to right on one side and right to left on the other.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Contributor
I think you need to figure out who is actually buying one of these devices and why they are buying them. Is there purely collector value? I can't see why. Maybe its just the perceived coolness factor? Maybe for the rich folks out there. Is there inherent, although expensive rational for why the design works so much better? I don't see that either.
Member
Whole page of BC stuff on Ebay right now. Mostly squares(WHY make a square out of BRASS and WOOD????? Would you like it to STAY SQUARE????? Some still in the wrapper. Uber expensive block plane too.
Member
I love Bridge City layout stuff. My favorites are the adjustable 4 and 14 trysquares simply because of the unusual and very practical size. I also really like the saddle squares and adjustable squares. The large T-Square (all metal) is also fantastic.
However I definitely take issue with some of the designs and durability of the tools.
The coco scales of the 4" have loosened up and I have CA glued them back. The old bevel squares with the thumb knobs are pretty lousy and can't hold a setting without major over tightening.
I have the steel and brass hammers and use them all the time, but the heads are glued on into a blind socket and they regularly loosen up.
I wonder about the design process of the the planes and how they suffer from the low-volume nature of the tools and the lack of use and feedback.
The brass, steel and rosewood block plane (hp-1?) is one of the most striking new planes but has the worst ergonomics (the new one is not great either). It's awkward to hold and slippery as a fish.
The bench planes are not for me. the older ones or the newer ones seem to be a jumbled mess parts slapped together, no harmony between the forms. I am not a fan.
Ultimately to each their own. I am glad that there is a market for the tools and BCTW was certainly one of the pioneers of the hand tool resurgance so I wish them continued success in the future.
Last edited by Niels Cosman; 05-09-2016 at 5:39 PM.
"Aus so krummem Holze, als woraus der Mensch gemacht ist, kann nichts ganz Gerades gezimmert werden."
Member
I'm not getting the same results — or perhaps I am not evaluating identical results the same way. With work, I can turn up c. 25 Bridge City items currently on offer on eBay USA. Of the c. 25, four are squares. (NB: that the squares are poorly designed is a separate issue.)
For comparison:
Bridge City Tool Works c. 25 items
Lie-Nielsen c. 35
Veritas c. 30
Lee Valley c. 30 (obviously overlap)
Festool c. 4,000 (but, afaik, that includes sales by dealers)
What conclusions do you draw from the fact there are currently c. 25 Bridge City Tool Works items on offer on eBay USA? (And my apology if my search is wrong — I am not familiar with eBay.
Member
I draw the conclusion that indicators like Ebay item counts are basically Rorschach tests.
25 tools is probably a vastly higher %age of BCTW's installed base than are 30-35 LV or LN tools. Even if true that doesn't mean much, though, because we don't know why people are selling and (more importantly) buying. A highly liquid market isn't always a bad sign.
Last edited by Patrick Chase; 05-09-2016 at 8:49 PM.
Member
Beautiful design, engineering and production, I would definitely not leave it at the side of the road. Some of those making assumptions re:usability might be surprised if you ever got your hands on one of these (or not, I have no idea).
BCTW founder, president, CEO etc John Economacki gave his "too stupid to quit" talk at the Furniture Society conference a couple years ago. Interesting life story of a successful furniture designer/maker turned tool maker when he developed a severe wood allergy. BCTW is an obsession that has been on the verge of collapse on numerous occasions. It seems he's get a cultish collector following that should keep him afloat as long as he wants to be at this point.
My impression from Economacki's comments is that overall design is digital until enough pre-orders for a new product come in to start production (hence the renderings). There is little to no prototyping for many products - contact points/ergonomics are modeled, but a complete plane may not exist until it comes off the line. If it works in software, it is assumed that it will work in real life. They do not start production until they have a pre-determined % of the production run pre-sold and often sell out limited edition items.
http://www.opb.org/television/progra...ki-tool-maker/
Kevin Groenke
@personmakeobject on instagram
Fabrication Director,UMN College of Design (retired!)
Contributor
Thanks for the link, Kevin. I had not seen that video before. I recommend others view it.
John mentions "stripping back the design to basics", which is what I noted earlier. Another way of describing this is the focus on negative space.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Last edited by Derek Cohen; 05-10-2016 at 5:56 AM.
Member
Thanks for this. I echo Derek Cohen's recommendation: watch the video.
These words from John Economaki stood out to me, and I think sit well in this discussion and the space this forum creates:
"All objects should be worthy of the space they occupy. If you think of space as a treasure — something sacred — and you are going to put something in it, then it needs to be something special."
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