Does it really matter where a tool is made?

[Brian Holcombe]

That's sophisticated human engineering and electronics, but the same argument applies to simple tools: a straight edge should be easy to make in China, right? Except that designing and making them turns to be a very difficult process and the best ones are made by people who have the tools, the experience, and the commitments (underline commitments) to doing it well - so good ones are made in the U.S. or Germany, not China, and not Japan.

.

The Kezurou Kai crowd uses these;

http://www.matsui-seimitsu.co.jp/straight_edge.html

And so far they can take shaving thinner than 8 micron, so I think Japan has their straight edges down pat.

[Mark Henshaw]

This is a very interesting topic! I run the quality division for a multi national corporation that has 26 manufacturing plants throughout the world. We built and currently operate a 1 million square ft facility in Wuhan China in 2007 to produce steel related components. A few short observations about this plants quality as it compares to our European and N. American plants producing comparable items.
1) The Chinese line operators are very keen to learn new skills and if properly trained, pick up the skills as fast or faster then most of their counter parts. The SOP or work instructions must be very detailed as the operators/supervisors/ line engineers generally do not take initiative when they see something that is not specifically spelled out in the work instructions. Many decisions that should be made on the floor take hours or even days to get to senior management. I see most of our other plants taking the responsibility for these decisions at a much lower level.
2) The education of the younger Chinese is exceptional. Because we pay at a premium pay for the area, we have many of our line operators with engineering and other technical degrees. They will actually make more money being a line operator then working as an engineer for a state run company.
3) I can not speak for manufacturing at other regions of China, but in our plant we continue to see a need for a 20% larger quality control team and still have a quality return rate and scrap rate that is in the lower 25% of our facilities.
4) It is difficult to qualify sub-suppliers for components that we purchase. After sending prints and having detailed discussions/negotiations with machine shops, we will get a prototype that clearly does not meet the print. When we discuss this with the company they will tell us that they produced the part as inexpensively as possible (cheapest way possible) and that they did not believe that many of the notes or tolerances added value to the part. Many of the smaller manufacturing houses (less then 100 people) do not have access to western components such as bearings or motors.
5) Quality certifications in the country are useless. ISO certifications are bought and sold for a couple of thousand dollars. There are some very good inspection services in the country but to the average consumer the term "ISO certified" should mean nothing for a Chinese made product.

I own tools from all over the world and firmly feel that the consumer should look at value rather then price. Look at online reviews and determine if the value point is correct for you and your needs. In my experience, the company producing the tool or component has the control over the quality process no matter where it is made but products produced in China or other countries that lack the history of producing high quality components require a significant amount of additional attention to their quality control process. Failure to do this will result in a much higher degree of variation in their finished product.

[Susumu Mori]

Mark, very informative with real numbers and experiences!
What you told from a manufacturer's point of view confirms how I feel about those products as a consumer. Again, I'm talking about "generalized" feeling, not denying that there are excellent products made in China.
The problem is, we, consumer, buy things only once or twice especially for larger investments and do not have extensive prior experiences, that would allow us to perform hands-on comparison of products from different countries.
So, inevitably I'm driven by the general concepts....

[Erik Loza]

SCM Group manufactures entire machines in China. CNC machines, so yes, quality machines are capable of coming out of there but I agree with whoever it was that made the statement that mfrs. go to China not for quality, but for the lowest cost. What the Italians have told me, regarding mnfrng. in China, is that if you leave quality control up to the Chinese, you might get one or two samples out of ten that are acceptable. That jives with the feedback I get from shops and field techs who run or who have worked on Chinese machines (no brand in particular) in commercial shops. For example, an independent tech I know, who services SCM as well as other brands of machinery, told me about two separate instances recently. Two brands of machinery that, we'll just say, are pretty well known and well represented in the industry, both made in China. The first was a new 4x8 CNC that mechanically was fine, but required a complete rebuild of the stepper motors in order to operate properly. The second was some classical ww'ing machinery that, according to the tech, the shop owners said were breaking down all the time and never ran right.

I know that SCM has to have Italians supervising the QC at many steps along the way, just like I know that another well-represented European mfr. has their machines carcases shipped, 90% complete, from China to their European factory, for final assembly by their own people. In other words, the trust isn't there and it seems to be industry wide. But, everyone wants a better price, so this sort of thing will continue.

Erik

[Chris Padilla]

I work for a well-known high-tech company and we build just about everything in China. It comes down to making sure they follow strict quality controls. If a particular factory doesn't maintain our standards, we'll find someone who can...and we have...plenty of times.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Chinese stuff was junk about 10 years ago when I joined this forum.
It's gotten better.
Eventually, China will figure it out.

My only problem here is - when?
I'm 64 and don't have another 20/30 years to wait for china to figure it out.....

[William Adams]

Yeah, the problem is in QA, and what can be done at what price point --- still bummed about the perfect handled parallel tip screwdriver set I got from Lee Valley which had not quite perfectly fitting handles (the Canadian-made pocket marking gauge and plane screwdriver I got in exchange are far nicer, though admittedly lacking the interface between riveted wood and metal which presented problems for the screwdrivers).

[Cody Colston]

Sawstop saws are mfg'd in Taiwan. The many SS owners on theis forum almost invariably tout the quality of the machine as well as the safety feature. Evidently Sawstop ensures the product is consistent with their design specifications...as any company can do if they choose.

[David Kumm]

I also think that the number of consumers who really understand quality are in the minority. We all have a tendency to rationalize our decisions and it takes a ton of homework to understand the real differences in what we are buying, be it machinery or shoes. Until we as consumers step up our game and learn enough about what we are buying to demand better quality rather than asking first about price, we will get what we deserve. Dave