Junk, junk, junk

[Dave Zellers]

I pine for the old growth Pine from the old days.

Ain't dat the trudth!

Whenever I am demoing an old room, I always look at the end grain of the wood before it gets trashed. I have salvaged quite a bit of obviously virgin pine from doors, etc. Sometimes the growth rings are so close together it's hard to count them. That stuff is pure joy to work with.

[John Sanford]

Quality costs $$$ and noways everyone wants the cheapest [insert item]

The Companies who built quality and don't adapt (read start building cheap junk) can't sell enough to be viable and disappear leaving the cheaper junk as the only option...

Have you run your theory past Rob Lee or Thomas Lie-Nielsen?

[Rick Fisher]

OMGA, Festool, CTD,

[Tim Bridge]

Ok, there is the very high end and junk. Not very much in between like there used to be.

[Bill Conerly]

It seems that almost everything is now Chinese junk.

I own some high quality Chinese products, and I've owned some very junky U.S. made products--like a Plymouth Voyager, before I swore allegiance to Japanese cars.

When I was a kid "made in Japan" was a pejorative, and those who clung to that idea had to put up with American-made pieces of $%^&*!.

The cheap tools at HF (yes, many made in China) work pretty well for the person who uses it a few times a year. That's your casual hobbyist. People who are serious hobbyists or professionals need to pay up.

[M Toupin]

Have you run your theory past Rob Lee or Thomas Lie-Nielsen?

Want to wager a bet on the percentage of sales Rob Lee or Thomas Lie-Nielsen capture? Like anything, there's always a small niche market for those who understand quality and are willing to pay for it but it sure isn't a model a large corporation trying to make a significant profit would endeavor.

Mike

[Steve Eure]

Just as with any major appliance, everything is junk. I talked to a factory repairman who works for a major company and he said that everything is made to tear up after several years in order to facilitate sales, especially if it has electronic control boards, etc.. If you replaced your appliances every 30 or so years, they would go out of business. Same with power tools. So, what recourse do you have.

[glenn bradley]

It's not hard at all. It's just expensive. The real question is, how does it compare proportionally to 50 years ago. I think most of us would be surprised by the answer. Tools were better made 50 years ago, but they were also much more expensive relative to the average persons income.

Quite true. We see old prices and think "wow, look how cheap that was" but, gas was 7 cents a gallon and a house was $12k. As to the state of affairs for products available; in some cases I have been heard to say something like "you can't get a good one no matter how much you are willing to pay".

[Daniel O'Neill]

Just as with any major appliance, everything is junk. I talked to a factory repairman who works for a major company and he said that everything is made to tear up after several years in order to facilitate sales, especially if it has electronic control boards, etc.. If you replaced your appliances every 30 or so years, they would go out of business. Same with power tools. So, what recourse do you have.

Just had to replace our microwave because the door on the old one cracked and was falling to pieces. A new door ~100-150. A new Microwave $170 incl tax delivery. There's no way around the disposable nature of those prices. IMO

[Rod Sheridan]

Quality costs $$$ and noways everyone wants the cheapest [insert item]

The Companies who built quality and don't adapt (read start building cheap junk) can't sell enough to be viable and disappear leaving the cheaper junk as the only option...

Those of us old enough to remember quality pine for the old days when things where made to last and be repairable. The younger generation who never experienced it think it's normal and readily accept the disposable society we've become. And the downward spiral continues as manufactures continue to try and meet the insatiable desire for cheaper and cheaper products. Unfortunately we have only yourselves to blame.

Mike

Actually Mike, there are many companies making quality items, and it's not the younger generation that's the problem, it's us.

How many of our generation buy quality stuff? Do you own a stack of Lee Valley made tools?

Festool, MiniMax, Felder, Martin, Altendorf? They all exist, yet most buy cheap stuff.

My FIL is a retired cabinet maker who was fortunate enough to have a real apprenticeship in England after the war. He's amazed at how inexpensive good tools are today, he would work for a week to buy one handplane to add to his tool chest, today we work for a day to purchase a Lee Valley or Lie Nielson plane.

This was all brought home to me when my mom died in 2010, as I was cleaning out her house I came across the old chrome GE kettle they had received as a wedding present during the war. It had the big bakelite plug on the back, I probably replaced 5 cords on that kettle.

Somebody thought enough of them to buy an expensive gift for them, probably a few days pay. I'm not sure what we would think of someone today who gave a kettle as a wedding present, as you can now buy one for $10.

I'm not sure however that you can actually find a lifetime kettle any longer.

One thing I'm sure of is that my parents generation bought very little, there was only one TV, one kitchen radio, and furniture was high quality and you expected to buy it once for many articles..............Now we "redecorate" every few years.

It's not the younger generation, it was ours that fell for the cheap/replace syndrome. Now our kids are stuck because we enabled the WalMart mentality to take over our lives..........Rod.

[Daniel O'Neill]

My dream is that we find our way back to that. You would think the Green crowd would be all over it already. Manufacturing products to be easily repaired should be a central tenet of any sustainability movement. It also provides jobs that extend beyond the actual repairing. A young person who makes a few bucks taking things apart and repairing them, gets to see what trained engineers designed and is thus exposed to that world, and for a few of them, something may click, and they discover they have an aptitude for engineering. It's an exposure to engineering they would never get if we just throw everything away when it stops working.

Modern manufacturing has led us to stamping parts together instead of using screws, but maybe the cost of screws would be something we would be willing to accept to get back to repairable tools and appliances.

Check this out (Quote to follow if you don't want to read the whole thing)

To that, they respond that they've updated the engineering, putting new technology in that old frame. The tractor will be easy to assemble and, with an open source manufacturing model, will be easy to fix and maintain.
Clemmons says their "make it live longer" model sets them apart from other equipment companies that use patented, proprietary components.

[Jim Dwight]

I've had to replace the switch on my Hitachi dual bevel 12 inch CMS and one of my PC 690s. I think the variable speed controller is now bad in the other. But in addition to using some cheap parts, current tools are lighter and often better engineered from a usability standpoint. I would rather replace an occasional switch than go back to heavy metal frames.
If you review the problems section of the Festool Owners Group forum, I don't know that you come away with the opinion they are head and shoulders above the Hitachi/Bosch/DeWalt tools I use. They are better from some ergonomic features but not necessarily in terms of components or longevity.

[Bill Orbine]

Sometimes a clear head prevails when you been considering something junk because a switch fails. For example, a weak neutral leg in the wiring circuit can be the cause... usually by poor plug/receptacle connection or Frayed cord wiring (tool or extension cord). A tell-tale sign before switch fails is the motor seems to run hot and maybe emit a burning electrical smell. I'd had my share of junk and sometimes it's not that it is just junk.

[Dave Zellers]

Check this out (Quote to follow if you don't want to read the whole thing)

Awesome! Thanks for posting that.

[Peter Kelly]

I'm not sure however that you can actually find a lifetime kettle any longer.

You most certainly can! https://www.simplex-kettles.com

Granted, they aren't electric though.