Best Sharpening Method

[Jim Koepke]

I kept changing technique and media without mastering any one.

This is a common refrain from the chorus of the sharpening song.

You may often hear sharp is a moving target. I used to think my tools were sharp. Then I learned to get them even sharper. Currently I can get my blades sharp enough to shave. I look forward to learning more about improving my abilities and getting my blades sharper still.

There are a lot of techniques. Many of them are confusing. My suggestion is to start by keeping it simple. You will hear a lot about 'hollow ground' blades. That is what happens when a standard grinder is used. It cuts an arc into the blade. This is the easiest to work with when learning freehand sharpening. The blade can be felt to 'click' as it registers on the honing media. It is helpful, but not necessary to learn good sharpening practices.

Once you can repeatedly make two planes meet, the back of the blade and the bevel, then you can 'experiment' with all of the other blade preparation 'tricks.'

There isn't a need to go buy something new. What is needed is to learn to work with what you have. For the longest time oilstones didn't seem to work for me. It took me learning to sharpen with water stones to learn to appreciate and use my oilstones.

Christopher, what is your location. You may live near another member who would be willing to take some time with you one on one to help you with your sharpening.

jtk

[Mike Holbrook]

More wise words above.

It may help to break the strategizing and practicing Derek and Prashun are counseling into two parts. Breaking sharpening down into grinding and honing may simplify your strategy and make learning a skill set easier. Grinding is what one does to establish a bevel on the blade so that the blade can be quickly honed to a sharp edge. Some use flat bevels, some use hollow bevels, some use micro bevels...Basic bevel making skills may require different sharpening media and skills than honing.

Trying to learn a single strategy that succeeds at both extremes can be a problem.

[Stew Hagerty]

For what it's worth, here is my method. I use oil stones exclusively. I have three stones from Dan's Whetstones. I have a Soft Arkansas, a Hard Arkansas, and a Black Arkansas. I use those for nearly all of my honing. If I am working on a new iron or especially one from a newly acquired vintage plane, I also have three Norton India Stones: Course, Medium, & Fine. I also have a Genuine Horse Butt Stop from Tools 4 Working Wood, charged with green Chromium compound on the rough side and occasionally sprayed with DMT Dia-Spray on the smooth side. I follow the Black Arkansas with several strokes on the smooth side of the strop (green chromium compound is courser than the Black Arkansas so I do not use that side following honing). For a quick touch-up on a chisel (if I take the time to pull out a plane iron, I hone it then strop on the smooth side) or other sharp tool, I use the Green side, then flip it to the smooth Dia-Sprayed side of the strop. This system works very well for me on ALL of my different steels. I have vintage carbon steel, O1, A2, & PM-V11. Yes it does take a little longer to hone A2 on the oil stones than it would on waterstones, but I like the edge I get, I have no mess, and I don't worry about rust.

[Christopher Kurdziel]

I'm in Southeast PA. I plan on finishing off on a strop, but what I need is something that I can quickly establish a bevel with. I think I should spend the money on a worksharp or the Veritas version because of what has happened to my diamond stone. I don't want to buy another diamond stone and have the same thing happen. Unless this lives up to what the description says (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/pag...46&cat=1,43072). Also, what is an oil stone that is equivalent to an 8000 oil stone?

[Warren Mickley]

A soft Arkansas when freshly milled is kind of rough, but we don't use it that way. Well used it is roughly equivalent to a 8000 stone.

[Eric D. Richardson]

I have tried multiple ways of sharpening my plane blades and chisels. Right now I have water stones 8000/4000 1000 and a dmt diamond plate (300 grit) that I use to flatten them and to establish bevels. I just got oil stones as well to try them, but i'm not getting as nice of a finish on the oil stones as I was on my water stones (I don't think the final oil stone is as high of a grit as my 8000 stone). My problem is that my dmt diamond plate takes forever to remove material. I think I may have messed it up by pushing to hard on it. What would everyone else recommend doing? Ditch the water stones and get a finer oil stone? Keep the water stones?

I was considering either,
getting a trend diamond plate
Replacing the DMT plate
Getting an Atoma plate

Christopher,
I'm new here, and the one area I have always struggled with is sharpening anything. However, I watched the Paul Sellers video on sharpening chisels (the 22 min one) and the results was amazing. I followed his process almost exactly. I used a tile instead of glass (it was cheaper) and my grit was just a little higher for starting. I think he used 240, and I used 320. I ordered the 10 piece Narex chisels, because I didn't have a set and can't afford the high end ones. I started with the 1" chisel and the performance was just as good as Pauls when I was done. (Based on his demo at the end) I have now sharpened my marking knife and it turned out amazingly sharp as well. I have sharpened my pocket knife following his knife sharpening video and the results was just as amazing. So, that is where I started, and I hope it helps you.

ER

[Jim Koepke]

I would caution against the Paul Sellers method for users of water stones. An errant stroke can leave an ugly gash.

There are other reasons I do not use the convex bevel method.

There are a lot of 'methods' that are not used on my tools. I like to keep it simple with a flat bevel and a flat back. This is what works for me.

As per usual:

YMMV!!!.jpg

jtk

[Stew Hagerty]

I'm in Southeast PA. I plan on finishing off on a strop, but what I need is something that I can quickly establish a bevel with. I think I should spend the money on a worksharp or the Veritas version because of what has happened to my diamond stone. I don't want to buy another diamond stone and have the same thing happen. Unless this lives up to what the description says (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/pag...46&cat=1,43072). Also, what is an oil stone that is equivalent to an 8000 oil stone?

My Soft Arkansas is very similar to what an 8000 would be. It gives a decent edge, but I always continue on to my Hard Arkansas & Black Arkansas. If you have ever used a Black Arkansas you should try it. It puts an extremely sharp and very hard burnished edge on irons and chisels of all steel types.

[Derek Cohen]

I'm in Southeast PA. I plan on finishing off on a strop, but what I need is something that I can quickly establish a bevel with. I think I should spend the money on a worksharp or the Veritas version because of what has happened to my diamond stone. I don't want to buy another diamond stone and have the same thing happen. Unless this lives up to what the description says (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/pag...46&cat=1,43072). Also, what is an oil stone that is equivalent to an 8000 oil stone?

Christopher ... stop!

You have yet to tell us HOW you go about sharpening. All the media you have could be used very effectively by someone - obviously not by you. The question is why? Tell us how you sharpen and someone can advise you then on what is going on and how to fix it. Throwing more sharpening gear into the mix will not solve a problem if the solution lies elsewhere. The steel you want to hone is very simple stuff. It should get very sharp with little effort, and certainly without more expense.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Patrick Chase]

In addition to all of the other (great) comments, I would make two additional points:

1. You need to be clearer about your requirements. What sorts of tools (and metals) do you sharpen, what do you do by hand (for example do you smooth exclusively by hand), what woods do you work, etc.

2. On a related note there is no "best" sharpening method. There are a whole bunch that are optimal (in the sense of taking the least effort to get end results that are as good as or better than any other method) for specific sets of requirements, but without knowing your requirements it's impossible to know which may make sense.

One key concept here is "sharp enough": For any given tool, task, and workpiece (species and grain matter here) there will be some level of sharpness above which you don't get any practical benefit from further honing/refining. My point in (2) above is that a sharpening method is optimal when it gets you to "sharp enough" with a minimum of whatever you're trying to economize (for most people this is some combination of up-front time learning the method, per-sharpening time/hassle, and cost).

Shaving with your tools is fun and we all do it at some point, but that goes well beyond "sharp enough" for any real woodworking application. IMO there is almost never any practical benefit for woodworking from using abrasives with less than 1 micron grit size (the equivalent of #10000-15000 depending on whose system you use). Note that this assumes a tight particle size distribution: Some media, most notably the "0.5 micron" green stropping compound that a lot of people use, have unusually high particle size variability and therefore leave deeper scratches and rougher edges than their nominal size would imply, and you have to adjust accordingly.

[paul cottingham]

Like Derek said: "Stop!" :-)

you may have what you need to get excellent edges. Please tell us exactly what you have, and what you are hoping to accomplish. Until my hands went south I got edges that could split atoms with just waterstones. Well, maybe a slight exaggeration.

But im sure you can get damn good edges with a minimum of gear.

[Nicholas Lawrence]

Christopher ... stop!

I agree more information is needed to help you. When you reference a better finish on the waterstones, are you talking about the polish on the blade, or are you talking about the quality of the surface you get when you use the tool? Are you sharpening freehand or using a guide?

I would not go out any buy anything new until you figure out how to use what you have. The Norton 1000/4000/8000 sequence will get you a reasonably sharp edge. That is pretty much my setup, except I don't have the 4000 and (shhh, don't tell the sharpening police) go straight from the 1000 to the 8000.

If you have seriously monkeyed up the bevels the tools came with, and need to correct them, you can use a piece of sandpaper on a flat surface. I have a coarse Norton waterstone I use for that sort of thing, but I honestly could not recommend that stone to anyone (unlike the other Nortons I have, it goes out of flat if you give it a hard look, and I don't think it will last very long at the rate it is wearing).

[Robert Engel]

I have now sharpened my marking knife and it turned out amazingly sharp as well. I have sharpened my pocket knife following his knife sharpening video and the results was just as amazing. So, that is where I started, and I hope it helps you.

ER

I don't like the end grain test as much as shaving hair. I know if it shaves, its sharp.

[Robert Engel]

I'm in Southeast PA. I plan on finishing off on a strop, but what I need is something that I can quickly establish a bevel with. I think I should spend the money on a worksharp or the Veritas version because of what has happened to my diamond stone. I don't want to buy another diamond stone and have the same thing happen. Unless this lives up to what the description says (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/pag...46&cat=1,43072). Also, what is an oil stone that is equivalent to an 8000 oil stone?

Christopher, I understand the process you're going through and I think all of us have stones laying in drawers we never use. This happens as your sharpening technique develops. I think you just have to see what works best for you.

But you already have waterstones in 4k/8k and that is as far as you need to go for 90% of your ww'ing. The 300/1000 Trend diamond plate will do your backs and initial sharpening. Maybe I would keep the 300 DMT for flattening water stones.

I have found a 250 grit water stone also quite handy for those stubborn flattening jobs.

Oilstones are fine, but IME I've not found they work as fast as waterstones. I do, however, use them almost exclusively for sharpening carving gouges. I now prefer an extra fine DiaSharp (non mesh) stone which IMO removes material much faster than the soft Arkansas.

The other issue with Arkansas stones is you can't correct them for flatness, so I would not use them for flattening unless I had nothing else.

FWIW, I would place my black (surgical) Arkansas equivalent to an 8-12K water.

[ken hatch]

Christopher, I understand the process you're going through and I think all of us have stones laying in drawers we never use. This happens as your sharpening technique develops. I think you just have to see what works best for you.

But you already have waterstones in 4k/8k and that is as far as you need to go for 90% of your ww'ing. The 300/1000 Trend diamond plate will do your backs and initial sharpening. Maybe I would keep the 300 DMT for flattening water stones.

I have found a 250 grit water stone also quite handy for those stubborn flattening jobs.

Oilstones are fine, but IME I've not found they work as fast as waterstones. I do, however, use them almost exclusively for sharpening carving gouges. I now prefer an extra fine DiaSharp (non mesh) stone which IMO removes material much faster than the soft Arkansas.

The other issue with Arkansas stones is you can't correct them for flatness, so I would not use them for flattening unless I had nothing else.

FWIW, I would place my black (surgical) Arkansas equivalent to an 8-12K water.

What????

All stones dish, some easier than others. All stones will need flatting at some point, some more often than others. All stones can be flattened, some require more effort than others. BTW all stones make a mess, some more than others. Those are the factors which should help you decide what is the best sharpening system for your work flow.

ken