Advice on tacky Arm R Seal

[Todd Zucker]

Hi all. First post, and first finishing project: walnut cabinet with nice dark boards but had to match the color of the gray kiln dried walnut plywood for the panels.

Finishing schedule for the walnut plywood: transtint diluted with water, blo wiped clean after soaked in, followed by Arm R All. Spent a lot of time on this site for how to apply the Arm R All and tried to piece together the many helpful posts. Did three coats, wiped on like the busboy, each coat applied after dry to the touch. Then waited 24 hours.

The final coat was clear and no streaks or blotches, but remained tacky for several days. Used mineral spirits to try and get rid of the uncured Arm R Seal, which made it waxy instead of tacky. Still, after a week, it was waxy.

I think the source of the problem was doing this in the garage while we were having flooding in Houston and 100% humidity.

I tried wet sanding with 600 grit and mineral spirits on one extra piece and burned right through the transtint in a couple of places, and with the BLO was hard to put down more transtint to match those spots. Tried putting a fresh coat on another piece, and remained waxy after 24 hours. Tried another fresh test piece yesterday to see if it was bad Arm R Seal, but this morning it was hard, dry and smooth.

This morning, tried gel stripper on the other pieces, followed by the stripper wash, and ended up with what looked like witness lines, i.e., some came off but most didn't. Couldn't tell if that was the BLO layer or the Arm R Seal layer.

Trying to figure out if there is a particular stripper that would work with Arm R Seal, and also whether there is some kind of abrasive (steel wool?) that I can use with either mineral spirits or some kind of stripper wash that won't burn through the transtint. I don't want to sand down to bare wood everywhere because the veener is already pretty thin.

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

[Prashun Patel]

I won't opine on how to strip the topcoat without damaging the finish.

How long did you wait before "BLO wiped clean" and Arm R Seal?

[Todd Zucker]

I let the BLO soak in for about 15 or 20 minutes, wiped clean and then waited approx. 24 hours for first coat of Arm R Seal.

[Howard Acheson]

The most effective stripper to use on oil based and waterborne finish is a stripper containing methylene chloride. It is the fastest and does the most complete removal. Be sure to read and follow the directions on the label.

For the future, follow the manufacturer's instructions as they relate to relative humidity and temperature. Humidity anywhere near 100% can be problematic and a prescription for failure.

[Prashun Patel]

Howard, did you notice the OP does not want to burn through the Transtint? Is the Methylene Chloride stripper gentle on that? I thought not.

[John TenEyck]

Use KleanStrip Premium stripper. It will take off Arm-R-Seal and everything else, too. You really need to go back to square one. You shouldn't need to resand; the stripper will do the work for you, other than maybe a few swipes with 325 or 400 grit to remove any whiskers after the stripping is done. Use their "Afterwash" or plain mineral spirits to neutralize the stripper. Don't use water or you will raise the grain and be forced to sand it smooth.

When you start refinishing put the Transtint in alcohol instead of water. It will wet better in case there is still any oil in the wood and won't raise the grain. Then either forget the BLO, or only wipe on a very light coat. Don't flood it on. After waiting at least 24 hours (and longer is better) spray a coat of rattle can shellac. Let that dry and then start with your Arm-R-Seal.

John

[Scott Holmes]

After stripping the dye can be re=applied to even it out.

I suggest using a SPRAYED de-waxed shellac as a barrier coat to keep the dye in place. You can get an aerosol can of de-waxed shellac at most any hardware store, big box store or paint store. Zinsser clear seal coat is what you are looking for...

2 light spray coats 30 minutes apart; you are good to go. Let the dye dry overnight before you apply the shellac.

Sanding is not really needed until after the 2nd or third coat of finish... no need to sand the shellac or the first coat or two of Arm-r-seal.

FYI Arm R all is not a finish. I think Arm R Seal is a brand name with several finishes... Are you using their varnish or an oil/varnish blend?

[Todd Zucker]

Thanks for the advice. Will try those recommendations and see what happens.

John, as for BLO, in trying to match the kiln dried plywood to the darker boards, I did test samples with Arm R Seal directly over the transtint and another with a layer of BLO in between. Both looked good by themselves, but the one with the BLO matched the boards a little better. I am going to check my samples again to see if there is a big difference, and if not will skip it on this go round.

Scott, I was using the Arm R Seal oil & urethane formulation as a wipe on. I think I pieced together a bunch of your and John's (and Prashun's) previous posts on Arm R Seal in coming up with my original strategy (except for the BLO part). Just wish I had taken humidity into account, as everything was going great until that final coat.

[John TenEyck]

BLO gives the wood a little red tint. You can get the same effect by adding a little red to your Transtint dye mix. If you are using Brown Mahogany, try Red Mahogany instead, or mix the two, or add a few drops of red to the Brown one. Just an example. Make up two samples, one with your current recipe, and the other with some red added to your dye recipe but no BLO. Compare how they look after completing the whole process. I think you'll see you don't need BLO. But if you really want to use it, use it sparingly. Just wipe on a light coat. There's no need, or benefit, in flooding it on.

There's only one Arm-R-Seal product, the one you are using. It's a very good wiping varnish and I think you will be happy with the results when you are done.

John

[Todd Zucker]

Good point. Keep the finish schedule simple.
Back to the sample boards, which are starting to drive the missus crazy. Have a fair amount of medium brown diluted already and will try adding reddish brown.
I couldn't find zinsser seal coat dewaxed in a spray can but the zinsser classic shellac clear said it was 100% wax free in the fine print. Hopefully okay, but am going to find out.