Yes, You Need a Jointer and a Jack

[Hilton Ralphs]

By: Christopher Schwarz


Extract

I’ve been asked a lot lately if one really needs a jack and a jointer plane. Several well-respected woodworkers and writers now teach that you can prepare all your stock for finishing with only one bench plane, a smoothing plane, if you use machine-prepared stock.

I suppose that’s true in the same way that I could write all my blog entries with a manual typewriter, scan them and then use optical character recognition to prepare them for the Internet. Yes, you can do it, but you will get a lot more done if you use the tool that was designed for what you are trying to accomplish.

Read the full blog here.

[Jim Koepke]

Someone mentions that it's possible to use a smoothing plane for jointing edges. Next thing you know someone is having trouble getting their edges square and wonders what the problem might be.

In my opinion, at a minimum one should have three bench planes a jointer, a jack and a smoother. The S4S lumber available in my area often needs to be planed to be usable for my projects.

jtk

[Derek Cohen]

A lot of Paul Sellers fanboys will now be cancelling their subscriptions to Popular Woodworking and Lost Art Press.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Tony Zaffuto]

I must be closer to correct than not! My most used planes on virtually every project are my LN BU jointer and jack (#9 on my shooting board though). Next in line are either my #3 Clifton or #4 LN w/haf. Further downhill are the block planes, shoulder planes and a myriad of others.

Some may question the bevel-up choice, but they work well for me and my choice of wood worked. The smoothers used are bevel-down and wouldn't have it any other way.

[John Schtrumpf]

"Yes, you can do it, but you will get a lot more done if you use the tool that was designed for what you are trying to accomplish." - By: Christopher Schwarz | June 18, 2016

Personally, I have a jointer sitting on a shelf collecting dust to remind me of that. And CS can sleep at night, as I only build small things.

[steven c newman]

I think I have at least two of each size in bench and block planes.....Seems that IF I am using one size too much, and it starts to act a bit ..dull, I can set it aside, and grab the next one in the line up, otherwise, why would I have 3 in the #7 size?

As for the "Fan Boy " crack......I take umbrence to that insult! Both he and Das Schwarz have their place. I learn a bit from each.....somethings Paul does that I don't, and some of CS stuff I'll read, then just shake me head....

Not sure why...but seems like there is always somebody who will chime in to one of these type of discussions with an "Ad" for the higher priced tools.....?

[Derek Cohen]

Steven, I was not insulting Paul Sellers (who I think is good in his way). I was teasing his followers - typically newbies who hang on his every word (read his blog for examples). This is a case where he and Chris Schwarz (who also has fan boys on his forum) offer opposite advice. So who is right? You can't follow both.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jason Lester]

I guess I disagree with him because of the machine-prepared caveat. I have a powered planer and jointer. I do all the prep work with them. I do have a #7, 2-#5's, and a #4. I rarely use anything other than the #5 that is set for a very thin shaving and the #4 to lightly level out panels.

[steven c newman]

I follow both, because I take each with a large grain of salt.

[Jim Koepke]

I follow both, because I take each with a large grain of salt.

I have found both to have some interesting ideas. I am more attuned to CS than PS. I have also found both to make fools of themselves at times.

jtk

[lowell holmes]

Having attended several classes conducted by Paul Sellers, I can tell you his methods work.

He has incredible skills, and he will endeavor to teach you his skills.

I appreciate Derek Cohan's work as well. I see no reason to disregard either man.

I attended his classes almost 20 years ago, so I'm not a newby.

[Jim Koepke]

Having attended several classes conducted by Paul Sellers, I can tell you his methods work.

He has incredible skills, and he will endeavor to teach you his skills.

I appreciate Derek Cohan's work as well. I see no reason to disregard either man.

I attended his classes almost 20 years ago, so I'm not a newby.

I am sure Paul Sellers is much more accomplished than I will ever be. The thing that turns me off to his videos is his insistent tone about things like only needing to sharpen plane blades up to 250 grit since that is were most sanding stops before finishing. Some will then become evangelical about what the 'expert' has proclaimed and arguments ensue.

We recently had a thread requesting help with a problem of not being able to joint stock square. I didn't realize for a while the OP was using a #3 for jointing. If that is all one has and is working smaller stock, it might be easier to mount the plane in a vise and pass the work over the plane instead of passing the plane over the stock.

When Mr. Sellers shows the ability to make a mortise with a bench chisel, some start evangelizing about how mortise chisels are a waste of money.

Of course some will absorb the spoken words from 'the pillars of woodworking' and do as they are told without question.

I have always been a thorn in the side of those who profess "there is only my way."

jtk

[Patrick Chase]

I think that there are a couple big problems with both some of the posts to this thread and Schwartz' article.

The first is that a lot of people seem to be conflating "size" with "setup". Jack-sized planes are often set up with flat blades, tight mouths, and fine sets, such that they are optimized for fine work and functionally cease to be jacks in any meaningful sense. The 5-1/2 that Charlesworth uses or used for smoothing falls into this category. Conversely, plenty of people configure smoother-sized planes with heavily cambered blades and rank sets. Those planes are undeniably "jacks" in function, even if the casting happens to be embossed "#4".

The second is scale of work. Consider somebody who compulsively builds boxes, and never works a piece longer than 24". Any plane with sole length >=12" will work just fine for them for jointing, so a Jack-sized plane with a flat blade and medium set becomes a perfectly adequate "jointer". Likewise their "jack" might be a #4 set up as described in the preceding paragraph, and their primary smoother might be a #3.

IMO there's far too much dogmatism about which planes are suitable for what, and it mostly seems to be rooted in egocentric assumptions that the next guy must work on the same sorts of projects as you do. They probably don't, and their optimum is probably different than yours as a consequence. If you are one of those dogmatic folks, I have three words: Get over it.

EDIT: Two other remarks:

- Upon re-reading Chris does acknowledge the "size issue", but in a dismissive way. I think he's regressed, in the sense that his previous "coarse-medium-fine" columns provided a better and more universally valid exposition of the same basic idea.

- FWIW I'm pretty conventional - I have jointers, jacks, and smoothers. For the most part I use each for its nominal task, though I sometimes swap a flat blade into one of my jacks when jointing short pieces, etc.

[lowell holmes]

When Mr. Sellers shows the ability to make a mortise with a bench chisel, some start evangelizing about how mortise chisels are a waste of money.

jtk

I attended two rocking chair classes at Homestead Heritage. Each chair had numerous mortise and tenon joints. All of the mortises were chopped with bevel edge chisels. All the rocking chairs I've made have two 1" square mortises in the arms. If there is such a thing as 1" mortise chisel, I've never seen it. I've never seen a 1" firmer chisel either.

Having said that, I own several mortise chisels and enjoy using them. I do agree that if you need to make a mortise that you don't have a mortise chisel for, make it with a bevel edge chisel.
I'm glad you can do it with either chisel. The old saying is "The difference between a man and a boy is the price of his toys".

I recently had chair that because of a layout error, I needed 15/16" mortises. I filed an old 1" chisel to 15/16" and chopped the mortises.

I cant imagine anyone evanglizing against either type of chisel.

[Simon MacGowen]

Steven, I was not insulting Paul Sellers (who I think is good in his way). I was teasing his followers - typically newbies who hang on his every word (read his blog for examples). This is a case where he and Chris Schwarz (who also has fan boys on his forum) offer opposite advice. So who is right? You can't follow both.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Fan boys, which may not be an acceptable term to some or an accurate term, sure exist not just for Sellers. You can find them for Schwarz, Cosman, Klausz, Underhill, etc. If you care to read some of the comments by the regulars in Schwarz's blog, you would shake your head that almost everything Schwarz puts out there would get unquestioned endorsements and agreements. If Schwarz mentions a new tool or gadget, you sure will see someone saying they can't wait to get it. Of course, the same can be said of Sellers' posts.

Schwarz and Sellers are no God, guys. You don't have to agree with them on everything to show your support. And then some even refer to Underhill affectionately as Saint! I am not saying these great woodworkers and teachers don't deserve our respects and support, but idolizing is another thing.

This is woodworking and not show business. Perhaps, some players in the industry (publishing, tool makers, etc.) do want to promote and present these people as celebrities -- which is good for business -- and any idolizing is more than welcome.

Simon