Wow, you've been a member for over two years and this is your first post - actually, pretty freaking awesome - I had a pretty good laugh.Originally Posted by Jason Dean
Contributor
Wow, you've been a member for over two years and this is your first post - actually, pretty freaking awesome - I had a pretty good laugh.
Member
I just try to sell my work, that is all that is really important to me. What and how I do things in my shop is for me!
Moderator
I am a ww student of the Internet. As such, I think pros and teachers would do well to note that with access to so many masters, I'd never subscribe purely to one method. I value debate of methods because it really challenges my understanding. There's a lot of 'he's being inconsistent' or 'he's just a teacher not a pro' stuff, that I think insults the student (let alone the pro/teacher). I mean, the smart Internet student takes things with a grain of salt and is able to spot inconsistencies or flaws and to take the good out of an article without having other pros casting personal aspersions. Having someone else point it out is like telling me 'Don't trust him, he's a liar or misrepresenting.' as if I was giving him my 401k $$ to invest.
I don't need Paul Sellers to acknowledge that the traditional method of woodworking works. I can make that determination myself. I am rather grateful that his philosophy has encouraged me to try to do a little more with a little less.
I continue to be puzzled why we - even as nice as we are on SMC - feel the need to throw spears. I just don't understand what threat we're defending against. Maybe we just want to look very clever - as I am hoping to look with this very post
Oddly, this does not seem to exist on the Turners' Forum. Seems like those guys are a less dubious crowd.
Last edited by Prashun Patel; 06-22-2016 at 9:52 AM.
Member
You are doing a great job as moderator,Prashun!!!!
Contributor
This thread was destined to have controversy right from its inception. In fact, I think it was the entire point of the thread. Just drop some fresh chum in the water and watch the sharks circle and pounce.
Member
It does so because of frustration and anger when something for some reason doesn't work out for someone. I know because I was naive to believe every tool review. Since then I learned that there are a lot of amateurs out there arguing for what worked for them in the Internet. And that hand tool woodworking taught more like a craft then like a science. Some rules exist but do not help a newbie most of the time.I continue to be puzzled why we - even as nice as we are on SMC - feel the need to throw spears. I just don't understand what threat we're defending against. Maybe we just want to look very clever - as I am hoping to look with this very post
I read that article and I see it as "in some situation if it would be Christopher Schwarz and he would want to make something out of some wood he would prefer to have jack and jointer planes". I'm trying to understand the reasons from the article and somehow match them to my situations. Not always possible, too many situations and too many variables.
I wish I could see Paul Sellers make let's say a table in production mode to see the pace. And see him do it 40, 30, 20, 10 years ago to see how his method of work evolved.
It is natural to humans to have the need to belong to some group and to defend it. It requires conscious mind effort not to fall into this sweet trap.
Member
Not to worry, we've got Derek to "jerk" us out of the trap!!![snip]
It is natural to humans to have the need to belong to some group and to defend it. It requires conscious mind effort not to fall into this sweet trap.
I just hope he keeps it up. We can't have a bunch of fan boys dissing our Derek!
Fair winds and following seas,
Jim Waldron
Member
Natural for *most* humans. Then there are the iconoclastic sorts who find something to correct or quibble with in everybody's opinion. Oh wait....It is natural to humans to have the need to belong to some group and to defend it. It requires conscious mind effort not to fall into this sweet trap.
Contributor
I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with you there, Patrick.
Member
That's purely a misperception. They're so busy going spinny-spinny that everybody is too dizzy to hit anything with a thrown spear. And many of 'em are also to experienced at ducking thrown objects (lathes have been known to get surly) that nailing one of 'em with a spear is more a matter of luck than anything else.
The truth is, they are indubitably a dubious crowd. Very, very dubious, albeit not as dubious as potters. Don't let 'em spin you otherwise.
It came to pass...
"Curiosity is the ultimate power tool." - Roy Underhill
The road IS the destination.
Contributor
IMHO, you need a jointer (7 or8), a Jack (5) and a smoothing plane..The jointer planes are amazing tools that do the job of what they were specifically designed to do (square stock)..Just my opinion but it worksfor me...
Jerry
Contributor
Well said, Prashun...
Jerry
Member
Can we all please agree that the apporpriate wording is: "Yes, you really really really want a jointer if you intend to be decently productive"
There isn't *that* much functional difference between a #4 with a heavily cambered spare blade and a #5...
Contributor
Most projects I do, there is a job for the Stanley #7c, there are a few jobs for the Stanley #5c, or the Millers Falls No.14. IF the boards are on the short side, then it becomes a Stanley #6c and a Millers Falls No. 11... Smoothers being either the Millers Falls No. 9 or #900, with the #3 sized ones as needed. I use a Stanley #5-1/2 when the need arises. More of a smoother than a jack. The little block planes get used as well. Low angle or standard, depending on where I grab in the till. I use the size of plane needed for the job I am doing at the time. Not really all that particular about what planes are in the shop, as long as they do the jobs I ask of them.
As for making see through shavings? Meh. A gossemer shaving is usually right at the LAST stroke of a job. If I were to set up a plane to do nothing but those type of shavings, I would be at a single board all day long, not very effective, speed wise. Gosemer shavings are mainly for showing off, not doing work. IfI need to plane down, say 1/8" to level a panel.......0.001 shavings would take a LONG time, too long for me.
As for my #5 jacks......one does have that 8" radius to the edge, one has just a hint of a camber, and the Millers Falls No. 14 has just the corners done. The first one acts as a long bodied scrub, second one as a regular jack, and the third as a long smoother for panels. have yet to find any use for a #4-1/2. My low angle stuff is confined to my block planes. YMMV.
Contributor
Can we differentiate between fact and opinion?
It is an opinion similar to my own for anyone planning to work with wood in commonly available lengths. If one isn't going to work with wood longer than 12" or so, then maybe a #4 could be all they need or possibly want.Originally Posted by Jerry Olexa
IMHO, you need a jointer (7 or8), a Jack (5) and a smoothing plane..
Likewise your comment about the "functional difference between a #4 with heavily cambered spare blade and a a#5... " is more of an opinion. If the thought was finished to both of them having heavily cambered working blades, then it would be closer to a fact. In my use there is a bit of difference between the two with straight, non-cambered, blades.
If one wants to state a 'fact', why not there isn't much functional difference between a #4 with an unusably dull blade and any other plane with an unusably dull blade?
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
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