Need Advice On Making Spinning Tops

[Dom Garafalo]

I need some guidance on the best way or ways to reduce the dimensions of a turning block intended to be transformed into a spinning top.

I'm asking as a pretty new turner trying to develop some skill making a variety of things and I'm having some difficulties making spinning tops out of hardwood.

Here's what I'm trying to do. Take a 2" x 2" x 5" piece of hard maple and turn it into a basic spinning top with a fairly pointy base that's about 1 1/2" long and a thin integral handle about 1 1/2" - 2" long by about 3/16" in diameter.

The way I've approached it after making the block round was to use a spindle or bowl gouge (ground with swept back sides) following a tool rest at the approximate angle of the pointy base cutting from the 2" diameter toward the point. This works fairly well though it seems a bit slow.

My biggest problem and challenge is reducing the size of the remaining round 2" blank to form the 1 1/2" long by 3/16" diameter handle. I've tried using a small spindle gouge, a skew chisel that is a big challenge for me that only produce slight wisps of shavings and finally a parting tool that cuts very well but takes a lot small bites and time.

Its not that I'm in a big hurry to finish a top, it just seems to me there must be a better and more efficient way to do this.

As a new turner, I admittedly realize that tool grind angles and tool presentation make a big difference but thought I'd present the problem I'm having on this forum and see if there are some suggestions the experienced members can make that might be helpful.

Thank you

Dom

[Steve Mawson]

Don't know where you are in NY but the fastest way would be to find another turner to get some hands on advise. Otherwise there are a lot of video's on utube that can be quite helpful. If your tools are sharpened correctly cutting the spindle down should go pretty fast.

[Bob Coates]

Not what you are looking for but show alot of different tops, but no directions on how to make.
http://www.woodturningonline.com/ind...gn=Newsletters

Go here to see top projects.
http://www.woodturningonline.com/Tur...g_projects.php

Bob

[David Gilbert]

Dom,

You are in luck, the CNY Woodturners meets on July 12th. They will be very happy to help your way into the turning vortex. I know a couple of them and they will be very helpful.

Here is the link: http://www.cnywoodturners.org/index.html

Cheers,
David

[Glenn Barber]

Hands on mentoring is the way to go if you can find someone to take you under their wing. YouTube or Google "Peeling cut".... It is done with a skew. While it can seem intimidating, it is a very quick and efficient way to remove the stock to the small diameter you are seeking.

***As always, never attempt anything on the lathe you are not comfortable doing***

[Jim Underwood]

Having made a lot of these, my first thought was to make a video to post on YouTube, and link to it.

But having thought that, I think that there MUST be some up there already.

I think your basic sequence is probably the most effective way to do it. It can be done handle first, but I prefer turning the pointy end first as it can be cleaned up and doesn't twist off at the last, leaving an off center bump.

Here's my process:

I usually rough between centers with a roughing gouge, turn a spigot on one end with a parting tool, then place it in a chuck. Then I use a 3/8" spindle gouge for the rest: to put the point on, then hog out the handle a bit at a time, working from the bottom of the handle toward the top. Just don't try to go back toward the pointy end after working down the 3/16" diameter...

Takes me about 8 minutes including chattering, markers and wax.

[John K Jordan]

Dom,

I've turned hundreds of finger tops. I'm not sure exactly where you are having problems from your description. First, are you making a top like this? (BTW, this one is from Dogwood with the black lines friction-burned with a thin wire.)



This is the sequence I use. I keep this set around just to teach the process.



I use a skew or spindle gouge (never tried a bow gouge) to cut the bottom and point first then use a parting tool to waste away some wood for the next cut. The parting tool cuts only take a few seconds. On this one, I used a spindle gouge to shape the upper half of the body. I leave as much wood as possible for support. At this point, I sand and apply finish to the body.

Then I use a parting tool again to waste away some more wood to thin for the handle. Again, this step only takes a few seconds. Then I use a small skew or spindle gouge or spindle detail gouge to form the handle. I do the handle in several stages - for the first stage I shape most of the handle, sand and apply finish. Then I shape the rest of the handle except for the actual point and sand and finish that. Then I shape the point and cut the top off at the same time. I sand and finish the point off the lathe.

I like to make a nice point on the tip of the handle so these can be spun upside-down.

Is that something like you are doing?

I do have to be careful when turning the handle. I sometimes use a smaller spindle gouge for the handle or a 1/4" round skew chisel. It is critical to have razor sharp tools. When turning the handle I sometimes support the body of the top lightly with my left hand while shaping the last part of the handle with the tool in my right hand.

I try to make each one at least a little bit different.



As you can see, I use the wire method to friction burn lines on a lot of them! This is normally impossible on a sloped surface. I think I posted my method for this a few months ago.

I generally make them from smaller squares than 2", maybe 1-1/4 or so, but I do sometimes make them from 2" or larger. For the smaller sizes, I often chuck up a blank 6-8" long and turn two or three in sequence.

JKJ

[Dom Garafalo]

You are in luck, the CNY Woodturners meets on July 12th

I'm already a new member of the CNY Wood Turners but I drafted this thread to see if I could obtain a clue or suggestion on what I was doing wrong or wasn't doing at all instead of waiting two weeks until the next meeting.

Glenn provided that clue when he said

YouTube or Google "Peeling cut"....

. As a result, I found a very good YouTube presentation on performing peeling cuts with a skew chisel which will definitely help me.

I am essentially following most of the steps outlined by others in making tops except use of a skew to reduce the diameter of the blank. Remember, I'm quite new at this and the skew chisel is still a little intimidating.

Thank you all for your responses and help.

Dom

[John K Jordan]

Remember, I'm quite new at this and the skew chisel is still a little intimidating.

When I started woodturning everyone told me to "stay away from the evil skew!" I hear lots of jokes about how they make a good negative-rake scraper and great for opening cans.

But when I read the books (Raffan, Darlow, etc) I found that the expert turners relied on the skew - I was determined to learn to use it even if it killed me. Now it is one of my favorite tools. (I did a club demo just last night on using the skew on thin spindles.) When I teach I always start new turners with the skew, it's the first tool they hold. Give them a spindle blank already turned round and let them see how the edge cuts while turning the lathe by hand. In short order every single one is planing cylinders and tapers and making v-grooves. After you learn the basics with the skew everything else is easy. (Then we go on to the roughing gouge and learn square-to-round, then the spindle gouge.) We don't go to face turning and bowl gouges until they get a lot of practice on spindles, beads and coves.

I suspect there is someone in your club willing to give private skew lessons if you are interested.

Edit: Good advice on peeling cuts. I forgot to mention I use the sharp parting tool in a peeling cut mode to waste away wood when making small things like tops - it can be considered a very tiny skew! This works a lot better than pushing it straight into the wood in the scraping mode.

JKJ

[Jim Underwood]

As you can see from John Jordan's pictures, we're all using a similar sequence... whereas he uses a skew, I use a spindle gouge. I just find it easier to use. It's not that I can't use the skew, but it's easier and more forgiving with a gouge.

But that's pretty much how I do it.

I really should make a quick video sometime....

[John K Jordan]

As you can see from John Jordan's pictures, we're all using a similar sequence... whereas he uses a skew, I use a spindle gouge. I just find it easier to use. It's not that I can't use the skew, but it's easier and more forgiving with a gouge.
But that's pretty much how I do it.
I really should make a quick video sometime....

I'd like to see that video!

To be clear, I use the spindle gouges to turn much of the finger top. For example, for this one I used a skew to do facing cuts on the conical bottom, rough shaped the upper side with the parting tool, then used a spindle gouge for the upper side and handle. If the handle is not too short I like the tiny skew for a good finish cut, otherwise use a relatively small spindle gouge and a bit of sandpaper. The skew, I think, is better for sharp v-grooves.



BTW, a 1/2" skew ground straight across is perfect for peeling cuts, especially in tighter places. (I guess it can't be called a "skew" then, right?)

JKJ

[Geoff Whaling]

Plenty of clips on Youtube from turners like Nick Cook - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEhm53m3Ifw

I have a different approach to making spin tops as I use a spindle and disk style blank. I use laminated blanks, so I don't want to waste any more than necessary as shavings. A little more prep work in drilling the spindle arbor hole and glue up plus it requires a much different approach to turning. The spindle is basically a 4" long 1/2" dowel and the blank is about 1 3/4" dia x 3/4" thick. I also make plain tops using this method from commercial 1/2" dowel and 1 3/4" square stock clear pine which can be turned in about 90 seconds on average.

2015 Turnfest GDW 3a.jpg

[Jamie Straw]

Our chapters is building up a cache of tops to give away at our booth at the Kitsap County Fair, so this is a timely topic. We turned a top at Bonnie Klein's workshop years ago, and I hadn't turned one since. She taught us using a spindle gouge for almost all of it. I like using a radiused skew to make the top part, then I sand and add any chatter-work for decoration. Still working on the rest of the sequences, but for gross removal of material, I'm using a parting tool mostly, just seems faster. I turn the area closest to the wide top down to about 3/8" or 1/2", shape the underneath of the top-side, then reduce that part of the handle far enough that I can apply chatterwork to the underside. I use mostly spindle gouges (3/8" and 1/4") to shape the handle and part the top off. I would like to get good enough with a narrow skew that I could use that to shape the handle. Someday.

Clarification: I consider the "top" of the top to be the part it spins on.

[Steve Peterson]

I usually start with 3/4" thick flat stock for making tops. Cut it into a 1.5-2" round disk on the bandsaw. Drill a 3/8" hole near the center and glue in a section of hardwood dowel. You can let the dowel stick all the way through or leave it hidden depending on how deep you drill.

Hold it close in a collet chuck to shape the cone. Extend the top out further to trim down the shaft to a smaller diameter. You may want some end support if the body is really large.

Steve

[Randy Red Bemont]

Some great info in this thread. I like John Jordan's pictures of the process. Something I need to mess around with since I have lots of scraps (and a grandson) that will work great for tops.

Red