Workholding when using Japanese handsaws

[James Pallas]

At risk of leading some down a wrong path and being new to Japanese saws (a year or so). This is what I do. I think upside down an backwards from western saws when setting up a cut. Example: when cutting tenon cheeks I tip the work towards me in the vise and start the cut on the far side. This seems to work very well for me. I do much the same when cross cutting, starting on the far side of the work. When I can lean my weight into the work it is easier to hold it in place even without a stop.
Jim

[Stanley Covington]

Brian-
What search term did you use to find that? vids are worth amillion words. For the life of me I can't search it properly. "japanese saw technique" yields links to tool sellers. Seaching for "nokogiri" yields links to web programming.

Try copying and pasting these words and phrases in the search box. The results will all be in Japanese, but the video should be useful:

鋸
鋸の使い方
鋸を使う
両刃鋸
銅付き鋸
片刃鋸
鋸の挽き方
替え刃式鋸の使い方

[Prashun Patel]

Thanks guys.

I found this great video from jay van arsdale. He doesn't even use a stop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5kpbkDxMjU&sns=em

[Derek Cohen]

Thanks for the link(s), Prashun. The series by Jay is superb. It is years since I watched it, and fascinating to see how much else is in it that I missed the first few viewings.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Stanley Covington]

Thanks guys.

I found this great video from jay van arsdale. He doesn't even use a stop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5kpbkDxMjU&sns=em

Prashun:

Mr. Van Arsdale's video is very good at showing the basics. It is obviously not intended to show advanced techniques, but should answer most of your questions except for work off of shorty sawhorses.

Stan

[Mike Holbrook]

Great thread Prashun, I am picking up great information from this. The Jay van Arsdale videos are very helpful. I have also been reading Chapter 3, Saws "Nokogiri", in Odate's book which provides some history. The text and illustrations in Odate's book are helpful in understanding the evolution of the more traditional methods and reliance on pull vs push teeth. The major factor probably being the Japanese habit of working on the ground where push teeth can be very hard to use.

It makes me wonder about those traditional shoes/boots Odate always seems to work in. They almost seem to be gloves for the feet. Particularly in the case of sawing, the traditional methods seems to use the feet as a second set of hands. I have seen Brian wearing a pair in his video. I am wondering if this is one of the keys to two hand sawing in the traditional Japanese methods. The foot or feet holding the work allowing both hands to be used on the saw?

[Brian Holcombe]

I think it's important to understand that cabinet makers are going to work a little differently than daiku. For instance a mortise layout with ink as opposed to the use of a kebiki gauge. I pretty much only use kebiki and knife marks but if I were working on large timbers I would have to use the ink pot and string line much more.

I think I've watched every video of the sashimono-shi that I could find.

When working big timbers the work is not likely to move unexpectedly when sawing, the same effect is accomplished with your foot or with a vise.

Of course when mortising the butt-clamp is preferred (now don't quote me out of context on that one hahaha).

[Prashun Patel]

Here are three ways that I am practicing with.

In the first, I am using a bench hook. With the stop all the way to the front, I am able to clear the front edge of the bench. This enables me to drop the handle more than with a stop farther back. Since the hook can function as a stop and vice-versa if you flip it over, I was able to make one side into a quick and dirty miter stop. It's not precision, but for my son, it's a step up from the plastic HD one he was using before

The second pic employs a holdfast. I realized mine were not holding well because I hadn't sanded the shafts. Once I did that, their holding power is great and as expected. Here, I am using the pad to secure the work, and the shaft as a stop. This avoids having to use 2 holdfasts, so it's a pretty quick. However, because the clamp point ends up being further from the saw point, there is marginally more vibration than other methods. (Yeah, I know, my bench isn't grain matched )

In the third, I am using a right-handed face vise. (yikes! just realized the pic is upside down. SORRY!) This is the most convenient because I can use 2 hands if necessary. However, it requires the piece to be held vertically. If held wide-face-up, there is more vibration than with a holdfast or even a stop. So, I find this one works well for thicker cuts.

I think I prefer the simple stop the best. It's the simplest. I didn't take a pic, but I have a bench on bench which allows me to clamp a batten across the top as a stop. This allows me to secure the piece near the edge with my left hand (dampening vibration), get the toe down on the far side to start the cut, raises the work so I don't have to stoop to get close, and gives me a lot of air space when the cut completes so I'm not constantly karate chopping the bench as with a stop (bad for the bench and the saw, I'm sure!)

[James Pallas]

Prashun, I don't think I understand your reference to vibration. I don't seem to get much vibration when using Japanese saws. I have several saws and the only time I have noticed vibration is when the saw is too big for the material being cut or if the attack angle is off. I wonder if you change any of the above if it would improve your cuts.
Jim

[Prashun Patel]

Jim, it may very well be that my saw is oversized. I am using a 240mm Ryoba. I get some minor chatter with some methods of work holding. When held well, the saw moves quietly through the wood. The chatter causes slight resistance in the pull.

Now, this all could be also that my blade isn't super sharp. Although, it's only a few weeks old and I've taken pretty good care of it.

[Lenore Epstein]

I started pretty recently with Japanese pull saws, but like Prashun I had so much trouble finding info that I've been considering switching to western saws simply because there's so much info on their use. Now I've got a chance, which is nice, because I do like the saws I have, even if they've been a bit challenging.

So, my sincere thanks to Prashun for starting this thread and to everyone else who's posted suggestions and resources! Sawmill Creek comes through for me once again!