Face frames around 4 sides, how to join them

[Chris Harry]

Im currently rebuilding the lally column covers in our remodelled basement. Of course the wife took to pinterest and found some fancy looking thing (its just a box!) which is the standard box around a column but it has face frames on each side.

My question is how to attach the face frames to each other....do I bevel/chamfer the edges so they butt against each other and make the 90? Do I use a double wide piece of material at each side and v-groove it to attempt to fold it over the 90 degree angle on the box?

Keep in mind they are sort of tall (6'). It only needs to be painted, though, so material choice isn't a big issue.

Thanks in advance.

-Chris

[Cary Falk]

I would 45* them and join them with biscuits. Here is pictures of 5" columns I made for a bed but the same process.

[Jim Becker]

Since it's going to be painted, I see no issue with just butt joints. You can glue, countersink and screw with plugs for extra strength, too.

[Neil Gaskin]

If it's painted I would butt joint them. Use Poplar or Pine and use biscuits or a domino or something similiar for alignment. Bondo if necessary before prime and paint.

[Von Bickley]

You could butt joint the edges, and then put some 1/4" or 3/8" strips about 2" wide to give it a panel look. If the columns are wide enough, you could also run a small decorative molding inside the wood strips.

[Jim Dwight]

I would pocket screw them into a three sided enclosure and then close the box over the pipe with a butt joint glued and braded. I would try and convince the wife that having two sides project maybe 1/8 or less is a good look. That could eliminate a bunch of sanding.

[Mark Wooden]

Use 1/2" MDF, butt joint them around the columns; then glue up the face frames & rip a long mitre on the stiles, glue and headless pin into place.

You can also made up the face frame panels first and rip the entire assembly with 45's , biscuit and glue as per Cary's advice

[Chris Harry]

Thanks everyone for the ideas!

I completed the box part itself by using pocket screws to get 3 of the sides together then glued the 4th side on once the box was fastened to the pipe (I used scraps to create braces in the box with U-shaped cutouts to match the diameter of the pipe, then fastened it the column with PL Premium)....much as was suggested previously. I had already done that though, so I can kinda take credit

For the "face frames" Im going to use the same 1/2" MDF, pocket screws to keep the stiles together then just butt joint each frame against the adjacent. Id love to use the biscuit idea but I dont have a biscuit jointer (maybe I can justify buying one....if the wife can use Pinterest, I can buy tools!) With the butt jointed frames, though, I worry about filling the gap between them. I guess every method has a trade off. I might try the pin nailer method too, but with brads (dont have a pin nailer either!) Since this is just the basement I dont mind trying things....if its not perfect its still just the basement and can be re-done if really necessary.

I originally wanted to miter/chamfer the edges but was worried about keeping them together during dry time (how do I keep a 6' tall miter together evenly while the glue dries). Biscuits would do it, no doubt, but Id need to get a biscuit jointer.

Thanks again.

-Chris

[Roy Harding]

Thanks everyone for the ideas!

... (how do I keep a 6' tall miter together evenly while the glue dries). ...

-Chris

It sounds like you have the issue licked, well done.

To answer your parenthetical question above - masking tape.

[Cary Falk]

Thanks everyone for the ideas!

Biscuits would do it, no doubt, but Id need to get a biscuit jointer.


-Chris

Never pass up a opportunity to buy a new tool. Ever since Norm went off the air and stopped promoting them, everybody has been dumping them. Not too hard to find one on CL or Ebay for cheap.

[Martin Wasner]

Packing tape, with some strapping tape 90* to the joint on big pieces to fold the miters together. Quick, easy, and not messy. "But Martin, how do I get it over the post if you glue all four corners together?" If you are doing a frame and panel with cope and stick, leave the cope joints loose on one stile on each side with no glue. Just use pocket screws to hold it together until the field assembly takes place. Then you can run them through the sander, and cut the bevels on the panels as one piece. Doing them all at once with the fence at one setting ensures that you get panels that are of equal width. Onsite, you just pull it apart, glue up the ends of the loose rails, and a couple of clamps while you go do something else for a few minutes.


Even though painted, doing a butt joint has material going through different expansion and contraction because of the grain not being orientated the same way. Eventually that joint will show through the paint unless you are in an extremely stable environment. And another fun fact, you have 41.4% more surface area when gluing a miter together than a butt joint. I'm not a fan of biscuits for this application. There's more than enough surface area to make a strong joint, and the potential for misalignment of a poorly placed biscuit isn't worth the hassle. You can dry fit everything, but you shouldn't have to making a simple four sided box.

[Jim Dwight]

I have a biscuit joiner but I probably wouldn't use it for this. I don't see the need. It could help line things up. I'd like to have a Domino but that's a lot of money and I don't really need it. It isn't necessary for this either. Others have better experience with miters, I'm sure, but my experience is not great. Something this tall and small seems like asking for trouble with miter joints. You can spline them to help them line up and add strength but why? Plain old butt joints glued and braded will hold up essentially forever. Caulk the seams between panels (I like urethane caulk) and you won't see those joints either under paint. I don't see any reason to make this complicated.

I like to make panels with a thinner center part using a cope and stick bit on the router table. MLCS is a good source of the bits. I don't like the reversible but the two in one work fine or the matched sets are also good. If you have a router table, this would be my way to make the panels. But, if not, you can pocket screw them and add a little molding to dress it up.

If you want a pinner and don't have one, I think HF has one now. Their pneumatics are no-frills but generally work fine. I wouldn't use it for the corner joints, however. I would use my Ryobi cordless brad nailer (18 gauge). A pneumatic would be cheaper and work fine. The pinner would be the tool of choice if you wanted to add a little molding.

[Darin German]

I wrapped the beams in my basement exactly as your describing and butt-jointed the frames as others have suggested. I used biscuits to join the box around the beams and then just built the frames onto the box. They are painted.