5 in 1 combo machines

[mark mcfarlane]

... The shaper on some combos allow a router spindle which would also let me get rid of the router wing on the table saw. ...

I was unpleasantly surprised to find out that a router spindle for one of these Euro combo machines costs as much as a decent quality standalone router table setup.

[Erik Loza]

I was unpleasantly surprised to find out that a router spindle for one of these Euro combo machines costs as much as a decent quality standalone router table setup.

I've sold (and probably will continue to sell) router spindles as an add-on for the CU300 and I've gotten positive feedback from owners but it's still sometimes easier to just take the project to the router table. Even though we had a router spindle for the shop machine (a $30,000 combo!), we also had a router table. Same reason we had a 14" bandsaw in the shop as well as the MM24.

Erik

[Mike Turner]

What about this tool?Is anyone familiar with this tool? I have run across this one in good shape.The owner wants $200 for it and says it is very simple to change from one tool to another.I dont have a jointer and my table saw and drill press are really junk...functional but junk. http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/1141/3204.pdf.

[Brodie Brickey]

I'd like to thank you all for the great feedback. I'm traveling for the a while, but when I'm back I will be checking out some of the machines in person.

From the above and other conversations, combos can work if you plan your processes. Quality is top notch. Allows you to minimize the footprint in your shop (you still need space around the machine).

If I get the combo, I will need:
-The mobility unit
-Probably keep the router but as a station in line with my miter saw against a wall.
-Digital read outs where available.

I'll probably have to completely re-organize my shop layout.

Ben: Great to hear that a company provides great customer service. We need more like that.

Mark: You make a good point. Each piece of tooling comes with inherent costs. I haven't worked with shapers yet, but from attending a couple pro level shows various tooling manufacturers will make something for you but at a high cost. If I go Hammer the saw blades are different from the US standard so there will be less providers. Hence a likely higher cost for the blade initially. The blade quality may also be higher. Other manufacturers will likely have similar constraints. All good stuff to look at.

I don't know what it is about shopping for a new tool...it just invigorates.

Thanks again all.

[Andy Giddings]

Brodie, regarding saw blades, existing 10" blades can be reworked to fit the Felder/Hammer line. Most if not all blade manufacturers will sell you a blade for little additional cost compared to the 5/8 bore. I don't see that there is a significant hit on blades by switching, unless you have a large stock of 10" 5/8 bore to be reworked.

[David Nelson1]

How large are your projects and how much room do you have. Myself I would get it for the novelty asperct and the fact that its old. It might not be as good a deal though. Its small so your capacity cant grow much. Looks like a very small 6 in jointer or less. I went back and read a bit moreit's very small but if it fits your space. Keep in mind you will have to use a hand plane to geta parrell surface after the jointer.

Good Luck

[Brodie Brickey]

How large are your projects and how much room do you have. Myself I would get it for the novelty asperct and the fact that its old. It might not be as good a deal though. Its small so your capacity cant grow much. Looks like a very small 6 in jointer or less. I went back and read a bit moreit's very small but if it fits your space. Keep in mind you will have to use a hand plane to geta parrell surface after the jointer.

Good Luck

David:

I have about a single car garage of space. If I use anything other than the bandsaw and lathe, I generally have to open the garage door. With my cabinet saw at the front, I have 12'+ behind the table saw blade. So there is space, but it has to be managed carefully. Those larger items are also often minimally supported which makes the cut dangerous.

Between tool storage, 8" jointer, setting up for outfeed, etc you quickly run out of space (truthfully everyone does). Attached is a rough scale of my layout when everything is working. This doesn't include the lumber rack on the right wall because it is above 4'. I will need rework the flow just to keep myself working in the shop as is. The second image with color shows how I propose to reconfigure my shop to use the combo. I may get rid of the welding rig also, but there are times when you need it for non woodworking projects.


Shop Layout.PNG Shop Layout-Proposed.PNG

[Frank Martin]

For a single car garage, you may want to look into smaller combos. I have a Minimax CU300 Smart with a 5.5ft slider in a two car garage and not sure you will be able to make it work in a single car garage and have space to work.

By the way, I needed some small parts for my machine, belts, capacitors, etc., and they are in stock. Only thing I came across not in stock so far is the electrical box on the motors. In the end, just used duct tape to fix the existing one. So, not a deal breaker. Having Erik here is a huge plus in my opinion.

[Albert Lee]

Albert[/B]: I haven't worked with a shaper yet, only a router table. In posts on other boards many woodworkers recommend running off an extra length or two in case you make a mistake. Have you found that necessary? I'll take a look at Robland. How easy is it to get parts? How often do you need parts? How were the instructions for setup?

I have worked with a shaper but not a router table...

As for Roblands, I havnt come to a stage where I need parts, but it would be pretty straight forward as I bought it new, Just contact my dealer and they will have it sent over from Belgium. The setup of the machine was done by the technician, pretty straight forward again. just turning bolts and nuts for adjustments.

[Lou Ortiz]

I'm sure the Hammer, Felder or minimax would be worthwhile - i've got Felder, but would probably have been happy with minimax as well. I have the saw/shaper and jointer/planer split. I prefer that set up and it allowed me to put the power lift on the jointer/planer and not sweat it on the saw. As you look at features, i strongly recommend the power lift for the tables as cranking them up and down by hand when you're switching back and forth would be a pain. You'd get the digital display you want as well.

[John Lankers]

I'm sure the Hammer, Felder or minimax would be worthwhile - i've got Felder, but would probably have been happy with minimax as well. I have the saw/shaper and jointer/planer split. I prefer that set up and it allowed me to put the power lift on the jointer/planer and not sweat it on the saw. As you look at features, i strongly recommend the power lift for the tables as cranking them up and down by hand when you're switching back and forth would be a pain. You'd get the digital display you want as well.

You are 100% right, Powerdrive is the way to go but I doubt Felder is offering that on the Hammer machines. There was a thread on this forum about a year ago reg. converting a machine to eliminate cranking the planer table up and down manually between jointer and planer mode which can become tiresome fast. The "digital planer height readout" is an absolute must have, it is 100% accurate and repeatable. I would suggest getting the metric version which is much easier to use than constantly converting decimal fractions.

[Craig Behnke]

Brodie,

I recently downsized my shop and went from separates to a 5in1 combo. I'm just a hobby guy so I wasn't too worried about changeover or workflow to meet deadlines. It saves quite a bit of room and it required very little change to how I do woodworking. What did change was that I do much more planning in advance of working so that I make sure I do all of the procedures at once per machine mode. I still mess up on that, but i'm getting better.

You nailed the more popular manufacturers. When I searched I also found some brands like Rojek, Robland, Laguna.

If you're really really pressed for space, Minimax makes a very compact unit called the C26 Genius. I spoke to a few users that had a lot of good things to say about that machine.

Best of luck on the search.

[Rod Sheridan]

I have a Hammer A3-31 and a B3 Winner with the outrigger.

It fits much better in my shop than a 5 function combo, which fit best in square shaped shops (mine is rectangular).

You won't regret buying a Felder/Hammer/MiniMax machine.

Yes you can use router bits in the shaper, however the Euro block heads with HSS knives are less expensive than router bits and the performance is far superior.

You can have your existing blades bored to fit your new machines for less than $20.

I have the scoring saw option on my machine, well worth the money if you saw veneered or laminated products.

Buy the metric height gauges, the machines are metric ( typically 2mm per revolution) so the imperial gauge is some wonky imperial decimal per revolution.

Regards, Rod.

[James Raubenheimer]

For a single car garage, you may want to look into smaller combos. I have a Minimax CU300 Smart with a 5.5ft slider in a two car garage and not sure you will be able to make it work in a single car garage and have space to work.

By the way, I needed some small parts for my machine, belts, capacitors, etc., and they are in stock. Only thing I came across not in stock so far is the electrical box on the motors. In the end, just used duct tape to fix the existing one. So, not a deal breaker. Having Erik here is a huge plus in my opinion.

Hi Frank,

I also own a CU300 Smart but moving it from FL to Oregon the transport Co lost my entire Mortise unit and mobility kit. SCM tell me there have been no replacement parts for more than 5 years - ;(

Sure, it is a 2002 model, but heck, mine is not really different from the later CU-300 models so I am kind of thinking "if the machine can't be serviced after 10 years I may as well go for a different brand".

Looking at a Felder now, maybe the 741 combo or C3-41 Hammer which everyone seems to suggest is not difficult to get replacement parts many years after production.

[Brodie Brickey]

Just to bring everyone up to date, I did get a combo saw. I came across a used Robland X-31 combo for a really reasonable price. As with any used machine, there is still some setup and configuration to be done but I am really enjoying it so far.

A FELDER/Hammer/mini-max would be a better machine but this will meet my needs for the foreseeable future. Thanks to everyone for the advice and information.