Now I Need a Plane or Two and Bench Chisels

[Patrick Cox]

Thanks for everyone's help with my hand saw search. I feel very good about where I ended up. I already have my plan for back saws - I plan to purchasing a LN Tapered Carcus Saw and a LN Tapered Tenon Saw.

Now I need to pick out a couple of Planes and Bench Chisels. Based on everything I have read to this point on Planes, I have in mind that I should start with a Jack Plane and a Block Plane.

In terms of use, for my initial projects I am planning to purchase S2S boards, mainly yellow poplar or pine, and then I will use the hand planes to finish prepping my wood and then I guess squaring up and then cleaning up edges and joints...etc.

But here are some questions I have on this...

1. Should I go Low Angle for the Jack Plane and the Block Plane? I have read that these are more versatile but just looking for experienced input on this.

2. LN vs LV - I know this is a personal decision but is there more to this than aesthetics and ergonomics? One thing I have read about the LV planes is that they offer a special metal (PM-V11) that I believe is supposed to hold its edge longer. Is this true and is this worth it? I think I also read these may be more difficult to sharpen but I am not sure. One thing I can say is that when I called the two companies for help with planning my purchase, LN was immediately more helpful. Someone from LV is supposed to call me back but that has not happened yet. So my initial experience with LN has been better.

3. One thing I did notice about LV is that they have a beginners plane kit that does get you a discount and this did interest me...

http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/pag...87&cat=1,41182


Bench Chisels
And then finally on Bench Chisels, I guess my main question is on the special steel that LV offers. Is this something that would be beneficial?

Thanks for any guidance you can offer!

Pat

[Rob Luter]

The starter set from LV would serve you very well. I have the LA Jack and it's a high quality tool that never fails to perform. I own other LV tools as well and find them equally impressive.

I have two sets of bench chisels. My first set was a set of Irwin/Marples I got at a Rockler affiliate. They were affordable, but took a great deal of work to get the backs flat. They hold an edge fairly well. I use them for rough work and anything I need to do outside. I saved my pennies and invested in a set of Lie-Nielsen bench chisels a couple years ago. I also have a couple of their mortise chisels and a corner chisel. They are REALLY NICE tools. I use all these for fine work. They were ready to use out of the box save for a quick honing. They are A2 and hold an edge a good long time.

I can't speak to the LV chisels personally. Based on my experience with their other tools, they'll probably perform well. There's a Chris Gochnour review of them here.

[ken hatch]

There are reasons why BD planes by far out number BU planes in use. This is getting too far into the weeds but LN only offers A-2 steel for their chisels and planes, LV offers 3 different steels, O-1, PM-V11, and A-2. As you become more experienced that may make a difference.

Good luck,

ken

[Mike Cherry]

Your gonna get a lot of opinions here. I would advise you to try and visit a LN hand tool event or find someone local that may have some of the tools youre interested in. You cant go wrong with either company in terms of quality build and customer service. You will have an opinion on ergonomics and that is what I ultimately let influence my decision. My suggestion, if you cant put your hands on the tools first, is to buy one chisel from each company in different sizes and then you can see which you like better. The resale for these tools is very high and you will lose almost nothing if you decided to sell one. PMV-11 is a fantastic steel but I would not let that sway my decision. If you decide you like LV better, get the PMV-11 and enjoy not sharpening as often.

Finally, if I had it to do over again, I would get the LN rabbet block plane and a standard run of the mill vintage stanley #5 or #5 1/2.

[Prashun Patel]

I think that's as good an intro set as any. But as you use them, your personal preference for style (BD vs BU), brand, and preferred sizes will evolve. So don't plan on buying once and never again. Buy quality (or restore well) and take care of them as if you plan to sell them eventually.

Mike's advice about the chisels is a good one too. The criticality of that decision will depend on what you plan to use them for, how often you reach for them, and personal ergonomics. I wouldn't normally recommend this for tools, but for bench chisels, I think the best would be to buy a set of Narex bench and mortise chisels. These won't break your bank. Then you can take your time and work with individual LN or Veritas or Japanese (as if that's not a whole world in itself) chisels to get a feel for what works best for you.

With any of these bladed tools, your results are 25% the tool, and 75% your ability to sharpen, so practice that part as much as you can.

[Robin Frierson]

You're going to need to learn to sharpen those chisels and plane irons. You might want to pick up a book on sharpening or start watching some videos. Lee Valley has a lot of good sharpening tools. Most people use stones for sharpening. But I've switched over to the lee valley power sharpener and a granite plate for the backs. You may have a frustrating experience with those planes unless you know how to sharpen.

[Normand Leblanc]

I have written a paper in my blog about this bevel-up or bevel-down.
http://ancienscopeaux.ca/en/conclusi...or-bevel-down/

You can do everything with both types of planes. I now prefer BD because of the chipbreaker effect and this is after using BU for years.

Normand

[Patrick Cox]

Thanks for the replies so far. When I was searching for Hand Saws, I received some good suggestions on sources for vintage saws. So does anyone have any good, reliable sources for old Stanley planes?

Thanks

[Robert Engel]

I always recommend a #4 smoother and a LA block plane for the first planes. Then, depending on whether you are milling rough stock by hand, add a scrub plane and a camber blade #5.

IMO there is no advantage to a BU plane for a beginner. I use mine for any more is shooting and faring out dovetails. Perhaps one day I will get a couple extra blades and sharpen at diff angles.

There is a guy on Lumberjocks named DonW I believe who sells refurbed Stanleys. I would stay away from Ebay.

If you do find Stanley you like, I recommend you compare the price to a similar WoodRiver from Woodcraft. I know some people cannot bring themselves to use a plane made in China but I'm past that. They stack up against the LN planes I have very well. If it matters (and it does to me) they have a thicker blade and cap iron, better adjustment mechanism, and if you don't like it, you can send it back!! I've bought a couple vintage Stanleys over the years very usable, fine planes, but upgrading to a thicker blade I could have just got a WR.

[Curt Putnam]

Is LV's PM-V11 superior? Yes. Is it worth it? Pretty much a personal call. The harder you work your tools the more it is worth it. Just as easy to sharpen as the other steel type although may take a few more strokes depending on your sharpening media. As to planes, you will need a jack, a smoother, and a jointer. Buying a jack 1st is not a bad way to go but you still need a smoother to finish with unless you resort to scrapers or sanding. JMO & YMWV

Curt

[Phil Mueller]

The two sources I have used are Josh at Hyperkitten.com, and Patrick Leach. Lone Pine Toolworks is another, although I have not yet purchased from them. I have also purchased from fellow SMC members who list in the classifieds. You can also post in the SMC classifieds a "want to buy..." message. You will need to be a "contributor" to SMC to use the classified area. I think it's $6/year.

Seems like almost everyone owned a block plane. I find them regularly at estate sales...some worth buying, some best left. I enjoy my LN block plane, but reach as often for the $15 yard sale Stanley.

[Patrick Cox]

I always recommend a #4 smoother and a LA block plane for the first planes. Then, depending on whether you are milling rough stock by hand, add a scrub plane and a camber blade #5.

IMO there is no advantage to a BU plane for a beginner. I use mine for any more is shooting and faring out dovetails. Perhaps one day I will get a couple extra blades and sharpen at diff angles.

There is a guy on Lumberjocks named DonW I believe who sells refurbed Stanleys. I would stay away from Ebay.

If you do find Stanley you like, I recommend you compare the price to a similar WoodRiver from Woodcraft. I know some people cannot bring themselves to use a plane made in China but I'm past that. They stack up against the LN planes I have very well. If it matters (and it does to me) they have a thicker blade and cap iron, better adjustment mechanism, and if you don't like it, you can send it back!! I've bought a couple vintage Stanleys over the years very usable, fine planes, but upgrading to a thicker blade I could have just got a WR.

Hi Robert,
Thanks for your reply. My plan is to work from S2S stock and clean up my boards from there with hand planes. So would a smoother plane only work for that or would I need a scrub plane in that instance.

And I am curious to learn more about your reservations about beginners using BU planes. Maybe just a link to more commentary?

Thanks!

[Phil Mueller]

Patrick, I'll give you another POV. The first plane I could feel confident using was a BU Jack. I don't know why. I had a high quality #4 initially that I struggled with. I will say after some time with the BU Jack, I've acquired a #3 and #4. Knowing what I know now about setting up and using the smoothers, I've come to enjoy those as well. I haven't played enough with difficult wood comparing a BU to a BD...but I do believe all of the more experienced folks here when they say a BD will avoid tear out better than a BU. It's why I am working more with the #3 and #4 lately.

David Charlesworth recommends a 5 1/2 BD as a first plane. I'm awaiting arrival of a vintage #5 to work with that a while as well.

My point is only that the LN 62 was my go to for squaring stock, jointing edges, final smoothing, and shooting. I found it very forgiving during my early learning with planes, and perhaps that familiarity just makes it the plane I'm most confident using at the moment. I would keep it on your consideration list as a good all around plane.

Given you will be working S2S, and assuming you won't be attempting at first to remove a lot of thickness (i.e. taking a 3/4" board down to a 1/2" board), you likely won't need a scrub plane.

[Tom Stenzel]

Hi Robert,
...
And I am curious to learn more about your reservations about beginners using BU planes. Maybe just a link to more commentary?

Thanks!

There's probably more collective experience with BD planes here at SMC. People go with what they're familiar with.

Personally I think Robert is correct. The next poster will probably say I don't know what I'm talking about. They would be correct too.

Don't try to go in too many directions at once. Keep in mind that purchasing different steels will guide what you use for sharpening. I've stayed with traditional steels and oil stones out of sheer inertia. I'll change if I have to.

If I had to deal with the woods that Derek Cohen works with I might sing a different tune. They apparently grow around old engine blocks and slabs of granite and incorporate the iron and stone into themselves.

-Tom

[Patrick Cox]

Patrick, I'll give you another POV. The first plane I could feel confident using was a BU Jack. I don't know why. I had a high quality #4 initially that I struggled with. I will say after some time with the BU Jack, I've acquired a #3 and #4. Knowing what I know now about setting up and using the smoothers, I've come to enjoy those as well. I haven't played enough with difficult wood comparing a BU to a BD...but I do believe all of the more experienced folks here when they say a BD will avoid tear out better than a BU. It's why I am working more with the #3 and #4 lately.

David Charlesworth recommends a 5 1/2 BD as a first plane. I'm awaiting arrival of a vintage #5 to work with that a while as well.

My point is only that the LN 62 was my go to for squaring stock, jointing edges, final smoothing, and shooting. I found it very forgiving during my early learning with planes, and perhaps that familiarity just makes it the plane I'm most confident using at the moment. I would keep it on your consideration list as a good all around plane.

Given you will be working S2S, and assuming you won't be attempting at first to remove a lot of thickness (i.e. taking a 3/4" board down to a 1/2" board), you likely won't need a scrub plane.

Thanks for your reply Phil. Most of what I have read indicates that a Jack plane is a good place to start with bench planes. And I suspect that is the direction I will go, with a block plane and smoother plane to follow. However I am still struggling with the BU vs BD decision. My sense if that the more experienced woodworkers prefer the more classic BD planes. I am just not sure if that is the place to start for me, a beginner. I may call LN tomorrow to discuss with them.

Thanks again!