Contributor
The Europeans seem to manage to remember their PINs okay. And Americans seem to be able to remember the 4 digit PIN to get into their smart phones. And the PIN for their ATM cards. As long as the customer can set the PIN themselves, I don't see why Americans should not be able to remember a PIN for a credit card.
Of course, when people set their own PINs (such as their ATM PIN), they use something like their birthday, their child's birthday, etc. I don't see that as a real problem.
Mike
Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.
Member
Mike's right, the Europeans do credit cards better than we do. I've made several trips to Edinburgh the last two years and I can't tell you how many taxi drivers I had to teach how to swipe a credit card.
Ken, Be sure to read up on tipping in whichever countries you're going to. Much different than the US. Enjoy your trip!
Member
Canadian's, too.Mike's right, the Europeans do credit cards better than we do
Gerry
JointCAM
Contributor
When credit card fraud costs the banks more than it costs to institute a more secure usable user verification method, they'll change. Not before, unless there are external forces such as merchant or government action. It seems like the credit card issuer sending an email or text any time a transaction takes place would be doable. I know some institutions do that now.Originally Posted by Aaron Conway
[OP]
Contributor
I always read up on tipping! But sometimes the rules need to be broken.
Let me tell you about teaching tipping to a fly fishing guide in near Christchurch, NZ on Christmas Eve 2008. They don't believe in tipping. We fished for 4 hours catching 0 fish but that's why then call it fishing and not harvesting. I hung two and couldn't land one. He hung two and couldn't land one. The average wind speed that day was 13 mph with gusts up to 20 mph. Horrible casting conditions for a hacker fly fisherman like me. He taught me a lot about casting in the wind that day. He refused to charge me for his time or even charge me for a license since I didn't catch a fish. He had come in off Christmas vacation with his family to take me fishing. He worked for the resort where we were staying. He may have taken his first tip that day and it was generous. I insisted I would be insulted if he didn't take it.
Then there's the café owner in Paihia, NZ in 2014 who gave 3 couples a ride to their hotels, in the dark of night, while a cyclone was coming ashore and refused any compensation. His café located on the sea wall of the bay was damaged later that night when waves broke through a large window flooding the place. He used his pizza delivery van which looked like a shrunken PT Cruiser with a cage in the back and only 2 seats. One couple at a time, wife riding shotgun, husband in the back on his hands and knees with the luggage and the owner driving the pizza delivery van, he delivered the 3 American couples to their respective hotels refusing any compensation even for his gasoline expenses. My wife and I were the 3rd couple. The next day our early morning tour was canceled while we were on the road in the tour bus, due to high winds, 135 kph, at the pass we had to cross. Later that day and again the next morning, wearing our Gore-Tex lined mountain parka styled rain coats, my wife and I walked from our hotel to this gentleman's café and managed to eat 3 meals over the next two days before we departed without the tour we had scheduled. That was the only way we could try to repay him for his kindness. Riding in the back of a pizza delivery van in a hurricane! What a kick!
Friendly bunch those Kiwis!
Ken
So much to learn, so little time.....
Member
Australians and New Zealanders do not tip and do not expect to be tipped and if I went to the US I would find it very strange and be totally out of my depth as far as tipping is concerned. The background to no tipping is that our service industry employees do not have to use tips to make up their weekly wage and if they do receive a tip it is a true bonus.
Chris
Everything I like is either illegal, immoral or fattening
[OP]
Contributor
Chris, in my limited experience, ( we have spent 14 days in Australia and 2 trips for a total of 24 days in New Zealand), the service industry people in those two countries make more, don't expect tips and provide a higher level of service than is provided here in the USA. I don't believe it's caused because of the higher base wage as much it is just a different social attitude than you see here in the USA.
Ken
So much to learn, so little time.....
Contributor
I have my credit cards set up that way - I get a text or Apple app notification every time the card is used. Kind of funny sometimes. I'll get a notification before the waiter brings the credit card receipt for me to sign.
If I recall, I think you can choose to receive an email but text and Apple iPhone app notifications work better for me.
Mike
Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.
Moderator
Somehow that doesn't seem to be a problem in Europe. I doubt that Europeans are significantly smarter or have better memories than people in the US.
Chipped cards are used almost exclusively in every country I've traveled to, for transactions from a few "cents" to thousands of Euros. I've made hundreds of transactions and stood behind many people and not ONE TIME did I see someone fumble with a PIN. I've never forgotten the PIN and I have an shockingly horrible memory - just ask my Lovely Bride, ah, what is her name? (I do keep the PIN in the safe and review it before a trip if I haven't traveled for a few months)
Here's a tip: use a simple trick to encode the PIN (just ask if interested) and write the result somewhere such as part of a phone number for Aunt Sally. That would be easy to recover.
Years ago I got a special international card debit from my credit union and use it exclusively when traveling. The clerk passes a hand-held reader, I insert the card, type the PIN, and it's usually done in 15 seconds. As fast or faster than swiping a card and signing. And your money is far safer with a PIN - lose your card in the US and anyone who finds it can drain it at Walmart, chip or not.
I do think there will be a painful adjustment period when they go to the PIN chip cards in the US, but it will pass. Maybe those incapable of remembering a PIN will learn to carry cash so they can get their smokes and cokes.
JKJ
Contributor
Maybe if people use their PIN more often, they'll remember it.
Moderator
A very large percentage of the population use Debit Cards/ATM cards today with a PIN and have for years. And since one can usually determine what the PIN is so it's "personally meaningful", I suspect that few would not be able to remember it. Even my older daughter who has "issues" can remember her PIN. (much to her financial detriment sometimes...but that's a different kind of problem)
--
The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...
Member
My experience in Europe was that they seem to prefer Debit cards to credit cards. Locally issued credit cards seem to work OK if you can get one. They also seem to prefer Visa over Mastercard from memory. The whole credit card fraud and skimming issue is why using Apple Pay is a good idea although its take up is a but patchy.
Contributor
CHIP cards do no good if online purchases can still be made using just the card number. Does having CHIP and PIN mean the PIN would be required for online purchases?
Contributor
No, giving you PIN for a on-line purchase would not provide any security. The PIN is tied to the chip. On-line security is still a work in progress. IF the US were to go to chip and PIN, it would essentially eliminate "card present" fraud. But the scammers would move to "card not present" fraud, which includes on-line purchases.
We need chip and PIN but we also need a good secure system when the card is not present.
Mike
Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.
Member
Several 'dual mode' verification systems are used in the IT world for high security server access. One example requires you to attempt to logon to a server using typical credentials, but before allowing the logon, user is prompted for additional verification. User selects either a cell phone app 'push', or a phone call - cell or landline. Both the push or call require user to respond. The response is from a totally separate device (vs. the server) and is the second 'mode'. Total additional elapsed time is perhaps 6-8 seconds.
For credit cards, the card swipe/chip read/online would be the first mode verification. Push or phone call from CC provider would be the secondary mode verification. Hacker would have to compromise both your card and your phone.
...My prediction? It's coming quickly.
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