I have used it on MDF. I'll try working with it until it breaks down.Originally Posted by Patrick Chase
Apologies for beating double death on the subject.
Member
I have used it on MDF. I'll try working with it until it breaks down.
Apologies for beating double death on the subject.
[OP]
Member
I use MDF also.
Contributor
The comments about the "larger particles" in the green compound always make me wonder if there are different types of green polishing compounds.
My first stick came from a lapidary shop. People who use polishing compounds on gem stones would not stand for scratches left by the compound.
How does one determine if there is a difference in the material specifications for maximum particle size between what may be lapidary grade and metal working grade?
My strops are all leather. There is some green compound which was included in one of my stone purchases. Maybe some fresh leather can be found to give it a test.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
[OP]
Member
I have a large stick of golden compound,I got I know not where. And made of I know not what. Tis still sold by Rio Grande and Gesswein. At least one bar of what what they sell tis gold color. I hope tis the same. But,in polishing my last guitar,I found the Menzerna Guitar polish was not delivering the high polish that it was indeed supposed to do. Thus I did turn to the golden bar as a trial,and did find it made my lacquer shine like deep,serene waters. Perhaps next time I hone my knife I shall prepare another strop charged with it. But my greene strop,worn black by countless strokes of steel,serves me quite well.
Jim,I think you are a wise man,to use greene sticks from a lapidary shop. For those who do polish rare and costly stones indeed will not suffer the scratches of inferior and unworthy polish. I think I will follow thy example when next I need compound.
Last edited by george wilson; 09-03-2016 at 8:47 AM.
In Memoriam
Derek,
I still use King stones but not the 6,000. As each one wore out I went up a notch, first 8,000 which was good and now 10,000 which is very good.
Some call them old school or plain Old Fashioned, but I like them. Frequent flattening is a minor chore. One can make huge jumps of grit size and 3 stones seem sufficient.
Polishing stones which are not flat, bother me a lot. I have no need of stropping with the King 10,000.
I have tried several of the "more advanced" stones but the only one I like is a 15,000 Shapton.
The Spyderco white slipstone set is very useful, and I have flattened some faces of the equilateral triangle section, on a diamond stone, it took some doing.
Best wishes from,
Old Fashioned,
David
Member
WIN_20160903_10_54_04_Pro.jpgWIN_20160903_10_53_57_Pro.jpg
For what it's worth, here is the green bar I have. Must be 15+ years old. I Can't remember where it came from. Probably enough for
everyone on the forum for the rest of there lives.
Forgive me if this has been posted before. ( I'm new around here) I found it useful.
http://straightrazorplace.com/honing...-bars-not.html
Last edited by David farmer; 09-03-2016 at 1:11 PM.
Member
Yep, I knew and had previous previously posted about the overall composition and the fact that the AlOx particles are significantly bigger than 0.5 um, but hadn't seen that posting in particular. IMO it does a nice job of summarizing what's actually in that stuff - thanks for posting it!
I know this will seem laughable coming from me, but IMO it's important to keep an eye on one's final goal, which in the case of this forum is presumably woodworking.
The Veritas compound isn't 0.5 um, can't accurately be described as "Chromium Oxide", and most definitely isn't "30000 grit" as some have claimed in the past. For that matter I don't think it really leaves a "0.5 um equivalent scratch pattern" even when broken in on a soft substrate, and I say that as a frequent user of "true" 0.5 um diamond and AlOxide lapping films/pastes. I probably wouldn't use the green compound for straight razors if I were into that.
None of that really matters in this context, though, because IMO it is fine enough to get a blade well into "negligible returns" for woodworking, i.e. to the point where increased sharpness/acuity doesn't improve performance.
I wish Lee Valley was more detailed about the actual composition in their catalogues/site, though.
EDIT: I also have and use "true" 0.5 um Chromium Oxide lapping film, and that stuff is quite a bit slower than the compound. This is a case where you should be careful what you ask for, because you might not like it very much if you actually got it.
Last edited by Patrick Chase; 09-03-2016 at 4:14 PM.
Member
I also like to keep my honing stones flat. As I rarely sharpen knives, let alone work with a steel hardness common within knife manufacture, I have chosen to give the Spyderco stones a wide berth.
Spyderco stones are for knife sharpeners, not for woodworkers, that's why they are supplied ready for use, out of flat along its length. Its difficult enough for me already keeping my Norton Crystolon flat, let alone dealing with a set of ceramic stones. I have heard others suggest that Spyderco's stones are easy to keep flat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8qZ-NfzE9o
Call me a sceptic, but the guys now promoting ceramics stones, are likely the same guys who were promoting the benefits of diamond stones as recently as 12 months ago.
Last edited by Stewie Simpson; 09-03-2016 at 11:50 PM.
Member
The main guy advocating (I think "promoting" has somewhat unfair connotations) Spyderco is George, and he's been consistent. He's advocated diamond discs for grinding as opposed to honing, but IMO there's nothing contradictory about that.
I've used Spyderco a lot in the past for ski tuning, which is somewhat more like woodworking than knife-honing in the sense that there are geometry constraints (elite racers can feel a <0.25 deg change in edge bevels). They worked OK for me, but I just didn't like using them very much. I do think it's important to distinguish between negative subjective preferences vs stuff that objectively doesn't work. Like all solutions Spyderco stones aren't perfect, and I personally don't like them, but I think they're a perfectly workable option with the right care and maintenance. Note that the same general "care and maintenance" caveat is true of every *other* option :-).
BTW I think diamonds are a great option, just not traditional nickel-bonded plates. Tightly-graded pastes and films are terrific for difficult steels, or any time you want the fastest results possible for any given quality/scratch pattern.
Last edited by Patrick Chase; 09-04-2016 at 12:17 AM.
Contributor
That is an oversimplification, Stewie. Spyderco and diamond stones are not just for those that do not wish to flatten their surfaces, but also for those wanting a medium to abrade more complex steels.
Spyderco and diamond have a very different grit range. The Spyderco are at the high end of the range, with the diamonds at the coarse end. In this way they are complementary, and not alternatives to one another.
I would view the Spyderco stones as the oil stones of the waterstone world. They are ceramic and do not require flattening once flat. I think that it is rare that one comes perfectly flat, and I imagine that this is due to the way the are made (heated). It took me about 15 minutes to flatten the Spydercos, and they have been pretty stable since. I like that they can be used either dry or with a spritz of soapy water. Importantly, I like that they abrade A2, PM-V11 and the high speed steels with as much ease as O1. That is an important reason to use them.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Member
Derek, I was under the impression you had to resurface your UF Spyderco after only a month of moderate use. It must have been someone else who made mention of that.
Last edited by Stewie Simpson; 09-04-2016 at 1:18 AM.
Contributor
That was my statement after about a month. At that point it was only the slightest amount, and not since then (and it has been going on 18 months since I began using Spyderco stones). I check every month when I clean their surfaces, and there has been no further need to flatten it. I am sure that some attention will be required at some stage - oilstones need this as well - but I also do take care to use the whole surface and wear it evenly.
Regards from Perth
Derek
[OP]
Member
Indeed,verily,I have ne'er had needs to flatten my Spyderco stones since the timer I first did so. And,that time was chiefly to remove errant ceramic fuzz left from the casting process.
The ceramic stones do sharpen the most unyielding of tool steel alloys,like very hard D2,as have mentioned before. Arkansas stones will not sharpen D2.
Last edited by george wilson; 09-04-2016 at 10:27 AM.
Member
Since I don't work with D2 steel, I shouldn't need Spyderco stones.
Last edited by Stewie Simpson; 09-04-2016 at 10:12 AM.
[OP]
Member
Let me state here,for the record,that I am totally crushed because Stewie does not want ceramic stones. And,I am putting in my will that he will not inherit mine!!.Now,where did I put those pesky will papers?
Last edited by george wilson; 09-04-2016 at 11:18 AM.
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