setting up shop in chicago

[Nathan Callender]

Well, that was pretty unanimous! Thanks for setting me straight. I'm not looking forward to drywalling the ceiling though. Maybe I'll look for some headboard paneling to make that a much easier project!

[Mike Berrevoets]

I'm east of you across the big lake. Same weather for the most part. I insulated with batt insulation in the 2x4 walls and about 12" of blown cellulose in the ceiling. With a gas garage heater it is plenty comfortable in the winter. I leave the thermostat at 45-47 degrees all winter and turn it up to 60 when I go out there to work. 60 degrees in the winter is working in a long sleeve T-shirt when moving around a little bit.

i wouldn't bother with spray foam insulation on a shop unless I was going to be out there every day for an extended amounT of time. I just don't think it would pay off. Maybe it would but keeping my shop at roughly 20-25 degrees above the outside temp just doesn't take that much gas. I do notice in the gas bill when I'm out there more. Maybe another $20 a month on a busy shop month but that's only for a few months in the dead of winter.

drywalling ceiling is no problem with a drywall lift. Throw the board on and crank it up into position then put the screws to it. Don't even need 2 people.

[mark mcfarlane]

A drywall lift would be awesome. In my younger days I just made a simple T out of 2*2's and my wife used that to hold up one end of the panel whilst I screwed in the other.

Do tape and float the seams for air sealing. You don't have to sand them if you don't want to. If I don't need a really smooth surface I just use a wet sponge or rag to smooth out drywall mud. After a few seconds the mud re-liquifies and will slush around. No sanding mess, and with little practice you can make fairly smooth joints. I've found this the best way to make small repairs, especially on slightly textured walls. You can wipe off 100% of the mud around a patch, revealing the original paint texture. Then you just need to deal with recreating the texture in the small patch area.

The 1/2" lightweight drywall is under 40 lbs per 4*8 sheet. With two people it won't be too bad. More taping than 12 footers, but there is always a compromise.

Anther option is to get a few bids for someone to come drywall your garage. The big drywall guys order warehouses of material at a much lower price than you can get. They might be able to install (but not tape) the garage for you at a reasonable price, especially if you work on their schedule and they have a day of downtime. It might be worth a phone call or two. Some areas labor is expensive, others (like Texas) labor is pretty cheap.

[Jim Becker]

Yea, you can rent a drywall lift relatively inexpensively and it's the "bee's knees" for installing panels on the ceiling. And since this is technically a garage, I suspect you'll need to use drywall by code for finishing it, although I could be wrong about that.

[Jon Nuckles]

Nathan,

Welcome to Chicago! The heat index this past week was close to 100 degrees and insulation will help you both summer and winter. Do take the earlier advice and get some flannel lined pants. I ignored that suggestion for my first ten years here and am a true believer now.

Jon

[mark mcfarlane]

...And since this is technically a garage, I suspect you'll need to use drywall by code for finishing it, although I could be wrong about that.

Jim, I think the garage is detached, so there may not (or may) be the same restriction for drywall. For attached garages, I think most areas require 5/8" fire rated drywall on the wall adjoining living space. Either way, drywall is safer in a fire and its probably wise to check local code if you hang anything other than drywall.

[Nathan Callender]

So, if I hang drywall, the ceiling joists are 2x8 on 32" centers. Above that is plywood subfloor for a loft. Does hanging drywall on 32" centers present a problem? And, am I going to have to raise the subfloor to get at least r30-r38?

[Stew Hagerty]

Welcome to the neighborhood. I live just 2 1/2 hours East of you in Indiana. So how should I put this... INSULATE YOUR SHOP!!! LOL
Seriously, it quite often gets below zero here in the Midwest. And you're insulating not just for the winter, it often gets in the 90's and 100's here in the summer along with 90% humidity of course. I would insulate well, put up plywood on the walls and put in either a window mounted heat pump or a mini-split. That'll take care of both your heating & cooling needs.

[mark mcfarlane]

So, if I hang drywall, the ceiling joists are 2x8 on 32" centers. Above that is plywood subfloor for a loft. Does hanging drywall on 32" centers present a problem? And, am I going to have to raise the subfloor to get at least r30-r38?

Nathan, are you saying you have 2*8 pine beams 20' long with a loft and the beams are at a 32" spacing? Structurally that doesn't seem safe at all.

The length of 'safe span' is a function of the species and the grade of wood. My span charts show #2 SYP joists of 2*8's can go a maximum of 20'-1" on 12" centers with a very small 10 lb sq/ft static load. If its a loft with people in it you are gong to need a LOT more support. #3 SYP is only good for 15'-4". On 16" centers (twice as many as you have now) #2 SYP 2*8's can only span 17'-5" which is smaller than a 2-car garage.

I'm guessing the loft was a home owner added feature, the original builder certainly wouldn't do that. This designs sounds like the only purpose of your ceiling joists is to tie together the walls, with no design intention of ever decking the attic or adding a ceiling.

Not to sound alarmist, but I am throwing an alarm anyway. You need to get someone out there to review your garage ceiling structure, or buy a book on framing. I suspect your current setup with a loft is not safe.

[Nathan Callender]

Mark, thanks for the info. I think I probably shouldn't have called it a loft. It is just 4x8 subfloor up there for storage. I had the same reaction you had when I first saw it. However, I'm pretty sure the builder would have installed it because electrical was run in a way that the floor must have been there before the garage door was hung, and it's definitely an original garage door.

I think I'll have to do a little more investigation. I'd hate to drywall the ceiling only to find out later in needs to be reinforced!

[mark mcfarlane]

Mark, thanks for the info. I think I probably shouldn't have called it a loft. It is just 4x8 subfloor up there for storage. I had the same reaction you had when I first saw it. However, I'm pretty sure the builder would have installed it because electrical was run in a way that the floor must have been there before the garage door was hung, and it's definitely an original garage door.

I think I'll have to do a little more investigation. I'd hate to drywall the ceiling only to find out later in needs to be reinforced!

That makes more sense. The 4*8 sheet is probably fine for holding your Christmas decorations, particularly if it is near the wall rather than in the middle of a span.

I had another thought. Are the ceiling joist perhaps tied into the rafters with braces? In this case you probably have an engineered roof truss and the span figures I provided do not apply. Traditional ceiling joists and rafters are being replaced with a lot of different engineered products that perform better and use less wood.

If it really is isolated 20' long 2*8's on 32" centers and you hang drywall, I think you'll find out pretty fast that won't work: either the ceiling joists will quickly sag, or the ceiling will collapse.

Another possibility, if its an old structure it may have stronger wood joists. A real 2"*4" 100 year old hardwood joist is stronger than new growth pine at a nominal 2*4 size.