[OP]
Member
http://www.woodworkingnetwork.com/ne...awstop-patents
"An administrative law judge has issued an initial ruling that Bosch’s new Reaxx safety saw infringes on SawStop patents. The ruling in a case before the U.S. International Trade Commission could potentially halt the importation and sale of Bosch’s new saw to the United States."
Kevin Groenke
@personmakeobject on instagram
Fabrication Director,UMN College of Design (retired!)
Contributor
I can't say I'm surprised. Stephen Gass is/was a Patent attorney as are some of his early partners. You can bet that he took great care in writing those patent claims.
Contributor
I'll bet that battle isn't over yet.
Ken
So much to learn, so little time.....
Contributor
^ Times two
Maybe those that want the Bosch saw should buy them now
George
Making sawdust regularly, occasionally a project is completed.
Member
Though of course should Sawstop ultimately prevail you run the risk of having a saw that may not be supported...won't be able to get new brake cartridges...Originally Posted by George Bokros
Contributor
I purchased one by pre-order and am glad I did. I would imagine they would try to import as many as possible before they are barred, if that happens.
[OP]
Member
And a lifetime supply of cartridges...
Contributor
Well bet who wins will depend on how much money bosch wants to spend in coart.
Member
If Bosch lost wouldnt that mean that they just couldnt sell the Reaxx in America? If thats the case youd be able to get new cartridges Im sure from overseas resellers and via eBay.
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!
Member
I don't care who wins. I will never buy anything that is connected with Stephen Gass. He hired lobbiests and paid 10s of thousands of dollars to try to get federal legislation passed that would remove my right to choose which kind of saw I buy. I will never support any company or individual that does that kind of thing.
Guest
Comments such as these make me laugh. You do realize the 800b gorilla that Gass was fighting was the Power Tool Institute (PTI) which represents Black & Decker, Hilti, Hitachi Koki, Makita, Metabo, Bosch, Techtronic Industries and WMH Tool Group. So you side with the giant PTI instead of the little guy back during 2000-2006 when Gass was trying to license the tech to Ryobi and others?. And now that his product is a known, has some of the highest quality for table saws worldwide, your beef is a misunderstood interpretation of how he got to where he is.
Contributor
After Gass got turned down by the big boys, then and only then he petitioned the CPSC to require his invention to be on all new saws sold in the US. In fact, he was concerned about his rejection and making money just like the big boys. Art's interpretation isn't a misunderstanding, it just a different point of view with which I happen to agree. In fact, before Gass ever manufactured the saw and sold one here, I argued with Gass here at the Creek. His argument was disingenuous. If he'd applied to the CPSC before presenting his product to the Big Boys, I'd have to agreed with Gass's arguments. Gass is a patent attorney and his concern is more about his financial gain than consumer safety.
His products appear to be of a good quality but like Art, I will never buy one. I hope Bosch develops a cabinet saw. It's a short drive to Canada.
Last edited by Ken Fitzgerald; 09-13-2016 at 6:46 PM.
Ken
So much to learn, so little time.....
Contributor
I was told by the (then) Business Unit Manager of Minimax USA that they were approached about licensing the technology and that SCM was open to the idea until they learned the cost that was being asked for, in order to license that technology. Suffice it to say, there is NO manufacturer in any sector of this industry that would be able pay the number I heard without pricing themselves out of the market.
Erik
Ex-SCM and Felder rep
Contributor
Just a quick side trip--Business Unit Manager? BUM???? Got to be one of the toughest rungs on the corporate ladder at SCM!!
Back to the topic...I wish I could get over my distaste for the SawStop tactic, because they do indeed look like an excellent machine with the technology notwithstanding. Beyond that, for me having a single source for a component that would keep a high dollar machine running, I can't take that level of investment risk with my tool budget. Concern was expressed over the possibility of not being able to source Bosch cartridges in the US, but Bosch is much more likely to survive longer than a relatively small company, and sourcing parts from another nation is not as tough as it would be sourcing SS cartridges IF they folded.
(to be clear, I know nothing of their financials or any "hidden skeletons" or implying concerns of financial instability--just saying I personally couldn't risk having to trash a great saw for lack of a part that can't be duplicated)
earl
Contributor
Hahaha, I'll have to save that for later use.
Kidding aside, I want to float something else out there. SS's aren't cheap. So, I don't really know how much of the market share they really have. For customers who actually shop around and don't just blindly fall for the fear-based marketing (I'm not knocking them but I wish you guys could see the booth they put up at the big trade shows. Basically, "Buy ours, or else", with photos of dudes with 9 fingers, etc.) they are substantially more expensive than a lot of other Chaiwanese table saws and their "Industrial" model is not that much cheaper than Minimax entry-level sliding table saw. Their machine looks really well built but I'm not personally convinced how big of a piece of the pie they have. And keep in mind that their pie is only North America. Not Europe or Asia.
Erik
Ex-SCM and Felder rep
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