Woodsmith shop

[Mike Holbrook]

I happen to have a subscription to Woodsmith, given as a gift for Christmas. They do some interesting things, Vol. 38 / No. 224 has an article on spokeshaves which drew my attention. The article is actually on how to make a shop-made spokeshave. I was ok with using the drill press to drill parts out and did not object too strongly to using the bandsaw to rough out the curved shape, even though you might think an article on spokeshaves might actually incorporate the tool for the work it is good at. I may have smacked my head against the wall a couple times though when they set up the table saw with a dado blade to cut an angled dado....

"After setting up my dado blade to make the widest possible cut, I attached the sled to a wood auxilary fence on my miter gauge using double sided tape. With the rear body centered over the blade, make a series of passes, raising the dado blade between passes until the depth of cut creates an opening along the bottom edge of the rear body, as shown in detail "a" above."...

Really, OMG!... set up a machine with a complicated blade, make a special jig to hold the piece at the correct angle, set up a mitre gauge, make multiple passes, raising the blade....I suspect the majority of Neanders would pop that blank in a vise, saw down to a line with a hand saw and pop the wedge out with a chisel, finishing before any of those machine operations were done...much less figure out how to make the "jig" and actually make it. Making the jig seems more complicated than roughing out the spokeshave blank!

At the same time Derek, Chris and others make a good point about economy of effort for large planing or sawing jobs. Different horses for different courses, makes sense even if you don't ride horses. Prashun's comment about the temptation of judging our fellow woodworkers by their methods is another very valid comment.

[Steve Voigt]

It's one thing to say you love working by hand. It's another to imply someone else isn't a real 'man' because they don't do things by hand.

That's true, Prashun. Now, can you point to even ONE example of someone saying that (that you're not a real man if you don't work exclusively by hand)? I don't think I can. Whereas I can think of plenty of examples of the reverse, of people disparaging hand tool users for being too purist. Even looking at this thread, there is a comment implying that hand-dimensioning is "stupid," but I can find no equivalent claim coming from the other side.

What comes to mind is a couple guys who used to work for one of the magazines and now run a monthly subscription site. They regularly complain of the hand tool purists who scold them for using router jigs or whatever. Where are these people who are doing the scolding? I've scoured the internet and I can't find find them. I actually think they don't exist, except for a few isolated cases. They are mostly figments of the imagination of certain power tool users who are insecure. The vast majority of hand tool users I know are not purists; they are open, accepting, non-dogmatic, non-judgmental people.

No one should apologize for whatever tools they like to use. If there are a handful of hand tool purists scolding power tool users, they should stop. And the much larger contingent of power tool guys should stop complaining about being victimized and scolded by hand tool guys, because it's not happening. People should just use whatever tools they want and get on with it, without apologies or excuses.

[steven c newman]

I tend to run a "Hybrid" shop. No longer have the lung power to hand rip a plank ( Bandsaw). Don't have a tablesaw, due to no room. Have a router table, but most of the stuff I used to do on it, is being done with a Stanley45, and a spokeshave. Cordless drills and a drill press share time with the eggbeaters and braces. Don't have a "corded" Jointer, although I could on a bad day make a banana with a No.7c Jointah plane. I resaw with the bandsaw, then flatten with the handplanes.

Some set up a jig to do finger joints on a table ( saw or router) while I just grab a handsaw and a chisel. Used to router the dovetail in a PC 4200000jig thingy...now it is by hand. Not by choice, but by the fact the jig needs parts. faster just to chop them out. I still use a beltsander, and a palmsander....but I also use a few handplanes as well.

Have used the chisels enough on the last two projects, I need to schedule a Maintainance Day of sharpening. Chisels and plane irons need a bit of touch up. Bandsaw blades? one broke, two are DULL....next paycheck that will get fixed.
I use the tool I think is right for the task at hand, nothing more.....

[Simon MacGowen]

I'm 100% hand tool Simon! I love just using hand tools, I

Don't get me wrong. I do know that some people go 100% hand tool; it is just that I don't know them personally. For example, Tom Fidgen in Canada has now gone totally unplugged, after ditching his power tools.

Others also choose to do certain projects with hand tools only even though they are hybrid woodworkers. I have done a few like that, but on the whole, I use both machines and hand tools -- proudly -- for most of my builds.

One thing that some hand tool users would like to say is that they can do certain things by hand faster than using a machine and a jig. I'd prefer to compare the use on certain tasks by results rather than by speed.

It's all about quantity. No one can dovetail 10 drawers by hand faster than using a router and a jig or thicknessing 50 board feet of lumber with a handplane quicker than a thickness planer. However, I can fine-tune a joint with a chisel or plane to a precision a tablesaw or router can be hard pressed to match without test cuts.

Simon

[Pat Barry]

I'm personally not a great fan of Woodsmith show although I will watch it from time to time. I do think that the best show on TV recently was Tommy Mac series on PBS. Next in line is the Woodwright's shop but I don't recall seeing any new episodes - he might be in permanent syndication.

[Warren Mickley]

It's one thing to say you love working by hand. It's another to imply someone else isn't a real 'man' because they don't do things by hand.

I am more fearful of the judgment that woodworkers feel for their method of work than I am by some guys who do more with power tools than I prefer to.

We had a fellow write this comment on this forum, earlier this year:

"He certainly used machinery as much as possible. Not to would have been lunacy!"

It was rather insulting to those of us who are professional hand woodworkers. A comment like this did not bother the moderators one bit. But heaven forbid a woodworker should disparage the woodworking expertise of an engineer or a doctor.

[Mike Holbrook]

I am 3/4s with Steve on the "contest" between machine and hand tool people being pressed harder from the machine side.

Still hand tool people do tend to claim that we can do small, one off, jobs faster with hand tools which seems to get machine oriented people wanting to do a contest. The problem with the contests is where does the machine get to start? Is the machine set up before or after the starting buzzer. Many machine operations use some sort of jig which is typically not made after the starting buzzer. How long did the machine oriented person spend setting up their table saw: fence, miter gauge, blade depth, sliding table.... especially when they got it? How much time has been spent making jigs so the machine can do specific work? How much money was spent?......

In my case I am constantly asking myself how much money, maintenance and tuning are required to keep a tool, machine or hand tool, operational. The thing I like about hand tools is you pick a couple up and get right to work. I hate setting a table saw or router table up for specific work, although I realize some may relish that time. I would rather be mastering hand eye skills and learning to keep any and every type of blade sharp, skills which apply to most woodworking and or other endeavors.

[Thomas Schneider]

I'm not a hand tool snob, I have a full complement of power tools, but I think saying processing 200 board feet of rough lumber is stupid, is a little harsh! I have, on occasion, given up on a hand tool approach out of pure frustration with my ability, not because the task will take too long. I will go out on a limb and say if one was to process 200 board feet of rough lumber using a jack plane, one would probably be very good with a jack plane by the end.

I read a Chris Schwarz blog on a related topic recently. It was titled, "Why I adhore my machines". He expressed my own views very well in this quote, below ...

Stupid: Making a jig to cut a compound angle on the table saw.
Not stupid: Knifing a line and cutting the compound angle with a carcase saw.
Stupid: Processing 200 board feet of rough lumber with a jack plane.
Not stupid: Using an electric jointer and planer to do the work in an afternoon.

Further to this, I have watched videos of woodworkers building tables with machines where they went to inordinate lengths to create jigs to cut curves or angles. What was really a simple project turned into a complex and lengthy procedure. I wanted to scream out, "just pick up a carcase saw and saw to the line. Then finish with a spokeshave". That would have been too simple.

Another time, I was demonstrating mortice-and-tenon joint making with chisels and tenon saw at my woodworking club. I passed the pieces around to members to look at. One came up to me later to ask how the parts were sanded to obtain the finish I got. Of course they were planed in 2 minutes - I just took for granted the finish (that would require probably several grits of sandpaper, not to mention the dust and rounded corners).

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Prashun Patel]

i suppose you are right warren. I am sorry you were offended by that comment. It didn't occur to me. It is lunacy though

[Jim Koepke]

The problem with the contests is where does the machine get to start? Is the machine set up before or after the starting buzzer. Many machine operations use some sort of jig which is typically not made after the starting buzzer.

This reminds me of a friend who lived on the fourth floor of a building with a somewhat slow elevator. My thought that going up the stairs would be faster than taking the elevator had him wanting me to prove it. So as we went in the building I started for the stairs. He complained saying I had to wait for the elevator. I tried to explain one doesn't have to wait for the stairs. So I waited and still beat the elevator by going at a bit faster pace than planned.

I do not have the space for a shop full of machines. The noise would drive me nuts. The dust would be intolerable. Besides, the work involved using hand tools provides a bit of calorie burning that machines do not. To top it off, using a table saw scares the H-E-double hockey sticks out of me.

So my main power tools would include a band saw, drill press, battery drill motor, lathe, ROS sander, belt sander and chain saw. There are a few other handheld power tools around collecting dust most of the time.

I have watched Woodsmith Shop to get inspiration and ideas. I think it is where I saw an episode which inspired me to make a pizza peel to sell at the farmers market.

To me the idea of Neander wood working is more a state of mind. Speaking of which, Neanderthal man had a larger brain than modern man if my understanding of a recent publication is correct. Of course it didn't make them smarter.

To me it is using what is at hand to accomplish the task. A few days ago I had to modify some material saved from packing material for shelving units to make an adapter to fit two things together that wouldn't have done so otherwise. I guess a non-neander would head down to the place of purchase to seek a knowledgeable sales clerk. Good luck with that.

Today one of the things I wanted to buy was a top for a jar to sprout alfalfa seeds. They were out of stock locally. So instead holes were drilled in a Ball jar lid. I made a fixture with a lever lock to prevent injury and drilled the holes using my drill press. Then the backsides were deburred using a larger drill bit held in a tap holder.

To channel Larry the cable guy, it's about gettin' 'er done however you can.

jtk

[Brian Holcombe]

I walked away from machines to put myself through a handtool apprenticeship. From what I saw the people doing absolutely incredible work were heavily reliant upon their hand tools and very effective at using them and I decided that if I were to ever get any good at woodwork it would be a requirement for me to be able to do everything with hand tools in order to fully understand every aspect of doing by hand.

Here is some recent work, not on the blog, all by hand including the 4x4 framing.





I have some follow up shoji to this that will be on the blog.

[Rob Luter]

I applaud those that work 100% with hand tools. I really enjoy the process and most of what I do is hand work. That said, I wouldn't be without my table saw or thickness planer. I have ripped plenty of boards by hand and frankly get better results faster with my table saw. I have worked a few boards from rough sawn to finished thickness by hand and found the process to be interesting but slow. For my needs and time constraints, it usually makes more sense to run the lumber through the planer for the heavy work and finish it up by hand. Unlike some, I'm not conflicted by this. While I don't care for the noise or dust, I have hearing protection and a dust collector.

[James Waldron]

[snip]

The vast majority of hand tool users I know are not purists; they are open, accepting, non-dogmatic, non-judgmental people.

[snip]

You forgot to put in the "present company excepted" limitation on that.

[Mike Holbrook]

I am more of a semi machine and hand tool snob. I just do not like big noisy, dusty, dangerous, hard to maintain/set up stationary tools. I think there is a middle of the road between the big power tools and hand tools.

I have had to do a good deal of construction work over the years. For all the cross cuts and rips necessary to frame, put up paneling, sub floors...very few people use hand saws. I find a Festool table a couple Festool saws and a drill to be: more versatile , less money, more precise, faster, better/easier for dust control, easier to move around... They out perform my stationary and corded tools combined.

I like the Festool tools because they are closer to hand tools, sharing many characteristics. I think of my Festools as corded hand tools. My favorite thing about my Festools is they are very reliable without much care. I use: the table, T55 track saw, the Carvex Jig saw and T15-14.4v. cordless drill. I actually made a second Festool table from a cabinet, specifically to use hand tools on: hand mitre saw, clamping table, glue ups. I am a big fan of the Festool table tops for clamping/multi purpose fences & jigs.

I know they are not hand tools, but they are much closer, particularly in regard to their reliability and ability to get right to work with much less set up. They can be taken to the work vs taking the work to them.

[Art Mann]

I have seen many disparaging remarks right here on this forum in which people who used power tools were not regarded as real woodworkers. One side can be just as judgmental as the other. I am not familiar with the quote you highlighted but there are circumstances in which using hand tools would be lunacy. Have you ever run or worked in a production cabinet shop? A hand tool woodworker would go broke trying to compete with power tool shops unless he is building some high dollar specialty product. Are you saying cabinet shops aren't woodworking shops? If you are then your definition differs from that of most people.

OTOH, if someone gets great satisfaction using his manual woodworking skills or if he is building some specialty products that carry a high price then hand tools make perfect sense. There is a guy in my town who makes furniture by hand except for using a planer at times and his products command a higher price than I could ever afford.

Let me give you a good power tool example. I use a CNC router to carve images and lettering into trivets, coasters and inspirational signs. I sell as much of this stuff as I want to and the people who buy from me are proud of their purchase. It is absolutely true that a chip carver could reproduce many of the same things and the hand cut work might very well have more character. However, I can make things at a price that is satisfactory to me and a bargain to my customers. It takes a lot more knowledge and skill to set up to make these things than most people have. My wife is a graphic designer by trade and all of our work is original designs. Am I not a woodworker?.

We had a fellow write this comment on this forum, earlier this year:

"He certainly used machinery as much as possible. Not to would have been lunacy!"

It was rather insulting to those of us who are professional hand woodworkers. A comment like this did not bother the moderators one bit. But heaven forbid a woodworker should disparage the woodworking expertise of an engineer or a doctor.