Member
No problems with hanging cabinets on the wall. my earlier point was just that you don't want to do any noisy work on the lower cabinet countertops if they're fastened to the wall.
I do like the staggered studs idea as it will reduce vibrations through the wall. but remember that the wall will still be nailed to the top plate, so if you have living quarters above, you will still get some noise up there. So that's why decoupling the drywall from the studs and joists is important.
Contributor
Mel, IIRC they used a sound deadening insulation. When we remodeled our kitchen last year, they installed what they claimed sound deadening batting in the dry wall between the kitchen and the bathroom.Originally Posted by Mel Fulks
Ken
So much to learn, so little time.....
Contributor
+1^^^...
The dust collector (and ducting) will be by far the loudest thing in your shop. It's a low-frequency harmonic that really travels. I don't know if it has an application for WW'ing shops but I've been in a few newly built parking garages thathave some type of sprayed in foam along the exposed ceilings that looks somewhat like the old "popcorn-type" ceiling texture but anyhow, it is dead-quiet inside those garages. Really eerie to walk into one.
Erik
Contributor
Mineral wool products like Roxul Safe n' Sound are far better than fiberglass bats at sound attenuation.
Roxull Safe and Sound mineral wool insulation is much better than cellulose or Fiberglas insulation. I made the door to my dust collector closet a sandwich of 1/2" plywood with 1/2" drywall as the solid core.
NOW you tell me...
Member
The easiest/simplest (instead of staggered framing) would be more and thicker layers of drywall. I have two layers of 5/8" and is good enough (plus the 5" spray foam).
Putting the DC in a closet helps (I have my cyclone in a closet). Although it is noisy the noise is not screaming loud like a planer
or shaper taking large bite.
Member
This alone helps but the key is to decouple the sheets from each other which is where the Green Glue I mentioned comes into play. Staggered walls are OK too BUT they eat floor space AND as noted they are still connected to the structure unless they are used to build a "true room inside room" most people are not going to do this for a shop, but I have seen it for low to mid 6 figure HT rooms but usually built into the plans for new construction.
One other point is try to locate your dust collection on a non-shared wall and NOT in a corner. In the middle of the wall the majority of the sound will be produced near only two wall boundries (called quarter-space), placing it in a corder results in being close to three boundries (eighth space) and increases the SPL by 3dB out in the room, this is why in the days before cheap inhome computer based testing became the norm in AV people recommended corner loading a subwoofer.
If you are serious investitage the home theater forums, particularly AVS, the average HT forumite knows a ton about soundproofing and there are plenty of professionals that post. The SPLs people are trying to contain are massive compared to a shop, for example my HT that I am slowly getting together will have eighteen 18" subwoofers with a combined (real) 27,000 watts in roughly 5,000 cubic feet each one in a LLT enclosure (roughly 20 cu ft per driver). This is a "moderate" system compared to some so despite what some people think fracking is not the cause of the current earthquake outbreak it is the proliferation of HTs driven to one upsmanship via the internet.
My point is there are much richer veins of knowledge on the internet in this area and shops are easier to accomplish good sound control since they have lower sound pressure levels as well as bandwidths that are generally much higher in frequency than the average HT and the higher the frequency the easier it is to attenuate with standard construction methods.
Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.
Deep thought for the day:
Your bandsaw weighs more when you leave the spring compressed instead of relieving the tension.
Contributor
I had a good laugh over this. My day job is finding oil and gas. I wonder if your argument would work in court.... Probably not in the lower income areas in Oklahoma which are seeing something like 100-1000X the normal expected earthquake activity.
As a linguistic note, the industry term is 'fracing' not 'fracking'. There is no 'K' in the phrase 'hydraulic fracturing'. I suspect journalists changed the spelling.
Last edited by mark mcfarlane; 09-19-2016 at 5:20 AM.
Mark McFarlane
Member
I had to laugh at your post as well, really I was laughing at myself. I actually spelled it fracing at first, since that is what makes sense as you point out, thinking I had seen it spelled with a K I did a quick Google and "corrected" myself.
BTW that would not silliest basis for a case that I have heard argued in court...
Of all the laws Brandolini's may be the most universally true.
Deep thought for the day:
Your bandsaw weighs more when you leave the spring compressed instead of relieving the tension.
Moderator
I laughed out loud too!
I suspect the home theater/automobile stereo ego game exceeds even chainsaws and firearms in contributing to hearing loss! At least chainsaw operators and shooters SOMETIMES wear hearing protection...
JKJ
Member
+1 for Roxul. I used that in my garage shop and it does help quite a bit. Also Homosote instead of sheetrock will diffuse the sound.
Contributor
The Roxul Safe N Sound is much better than ordinary fiberglass stuff. IF the cellulose is dense packed ,I think it works as well as Roxul. And the dense packing takes some work. I used both on one project.
Moderator
Some may have done this but you could always 'hear' the train coming if you put an ear to the metal track before you could hear it in the air. Sounds travel better through a medium versus air.
So in light of this, all the advice given is 'sound' (pun intended) but keep that in mind as you research and think about how you build things. If you could fully surround your shop in a cushion of air, that would be best. In theaters, they use fabrics to help absorb sounds to prevent reflections although hanging curtain in your shop sounds (and will look) pretty silly. Any holes that air can travel through...so can sound. Plug 'em up. Think of wood and nails and screws like the metal train track. They can all transmit sound well.
[OP]
Contributor
I said it in an earlier post but it bears repeating - you guys are great. The ideas and especially the experience you offer is invaluable. I've asked the builder for two estimates: one with Quiet Rock on the walls and double wallboard with green glue on the ceiling and one with double wallboard with green glue and resilient channels for walls and ceiling. Both with Roxul and plenty of outlets. Should know in a couple of weeks if it's affordable! Thanks again guys. Cheers, Dave
Contributor
Most surface treatments are to control reflections within the room, they don't do much for stopping transmission outside the room. Still, acoustic treatment in the shop will make the room sound 'deader' and that may be enjoyable, particularly around something like a DC placed against a wall, or god forbid, a corner.
Owens Corning 703 and 705 are also popular high density fiberglass-based acoustic products.
Mark McFarlane
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
