How do I protect dyed maple?

[Chris Fiore]

I'm building a desk out of maple, and so far most of my research has pointed me to dyeing. I would like to mimic what was done in option 3 in this link: http://www.woodworkerssource.com/blo...s-curly-maple/.

My question is how do I finish this? It will be a desk so it needs to have some resistance to moisture for when I place a drink on it, coasters will be used of course. I like the idea of using the alcohol based dye to prevent the grain from being raised. I was also planning on doing a final coat with a linseed oil. Does anyone have a suggestion for a finisher which won't cause the dye to run?

[Robin Frierson]

I have used this maple finish before. It exposes you to dye stain and gel stain and gives maple a nice old look:

http://homesteadfinishingproducts.co...aple-finishes/

[George Bokros]

Using alcohol based dye will give you problems if you brush shellac as a sealer as it will re-wet the dye. You would have to spray shellac. I used water base dye on a project. Since maple has a tendency to blotch I first applied a two coats of Charles Neil blotch control sanding between coats of the blotch control with 320 grit and then after the second coat with 600 grit. The water based dye hardly raised the grain. I applied several coats of ArmRSeal and lightly sanded after about three coats. The project finish came out awesome.

[Steve Schoene]

AWith alcohol based dye you need to be able to spray, and do that evenly. Alcohol dries so fast that is very easy to see overlaps and other defects. Using water soluble powdered dye give you lots of working time to achieve even dye coloration that is determined largely be how concentrated a dye mix you apply, and very little about the application technique. If you plan on using the option 3 in the video, raising grain is irrelevant since the method depends entirely sanding off surface color, leaving the more porous areas of figure where the dye had penetrated more deeply.

Linseed oil does not make a satisfactory final finish. It won't significantly cause dye to run. But, it won't provide protection from water spotting. But, if you want a similar, in wood finish, not a film on the surface, you can achieve more protection but the same look by using an oil/varnish mix or Danish Oil.

[Prashun Patel]

Don't be afraid of the grain raising. It's not a big deal. If you sand very lightly, you won't harm your dye. Also, you can sand again after a couple coats of your top coat or sealer coat go on.

Are you going to spray?

[John TenEyck]

If your desk is made of curly maple then what the video shows will look great. If it's made from plain maple it will look awful, unless you think blotching looks good, and sanding after you dye it will only make it look worse (No offense, Prashun.) The only success I've had dying blotch prone maple (and it's all more or less prone to blotching) is to spray it, as discussed above.

Forget BLO. You want some sort of film finish for resistance to water/drinks. Varnish is a good option.

John

[Prashun Patel]

none, taken, John. I can understand blotch (although I only find it problematic when trying to dye it dark.). Why does sanding make it look worse? I have not experienced that.

[Chris Fiore]

Based on some additional research I'm now looking at using water based transtint instead of alcohol based. I may be able to use a friends sprayer, but for now I'm assuming that I will not have access to one. The drawers and face frame I have seem to have a fair amount of curl, which I think will really pop with the dye. The main parts of the cabinets and desktop do not have any curl. I planned on testing it out on some scrap I have. I thought dye was supposed to result in a more even coloring than stain, aside from darkening the curls. Should I be concerned about using dye over the majority of the piece?

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[John TenEyck]

Your results on the test pieces will tell you how much of an issue the dye will be on the various woods you have, and whether you can do it by hand or need to spray it, or resort to something like Charles Neil's product if you can't spray.

Prashun, if you sand dyed wood you risk cutting through it on the edges and any high spots and exposing the undyed wood below. Not pretty when that happens. Because of that I never sand after dying. I sand to 325 grit before dying, raise the grain, sand with 400 or 600 grit, and then dye it. Then I spray a coat of Sealcoat shellac and a coat of finish before sanding it again. That regimen seems to minimize any grain raising issues for me, even on difficult woods like oak.

John

[Chris Fiore]

So my plan is to do the following:

1. Spray Charles Neil Blotch Control (Probably only on the table top and other maple plywood surface)
2. Wipe on 3 coats of TranTint dye with sanding in between to make the figure pop on the drawers and facing.
3. Apply Tung oil or Boiled Linseed oil
4. Finish with wipe on polyurethane

Two questions:
1. Is there any advantage between Tung oil over boiled linseed oil or vise versa?
2. Will the coat of oil sufficiently seal the dye, allowing me to use a water based polyurethane, or should I stick with an oil based polyurethane. I like the clearer appearance of the water based poly and faster drying times, but since I am wiping it on I don't want to cause the dye to lift off.

[Prashun Patel]

The oil does nothing here but complicate your regimen.

Blotch control (I never had to use it), transtint, oil based wipe on poly.

The waterbased 'poly' is not clearer. It is less yellow/amber than oil based poly.

[Chris Fiore]

My reason for water based poly was that it was less amber. I'm interested in using the mission brown dye. It already has some yellow in it, but I don't know that I wan't any more. Oil poly alone will yield the same look as a tung oil?

[Conrad Fiore]

This is a quick piece I put together for a friend's son to be used as a TV/Video Game cabinet. It is maple ply sides and back with solid face frame, door and moldings. As you can see it has a small amount of curl in the solid wood.
My schedule was:

Water soluble aniline dye.
Seal one coat of SealCoat shellac. (Sprayed. You can get rattle cans for your small project)
Light 400 G scuff sand to shear off any raised grain.
Two coats of Target 2000 WB Alkyd Varnish. (Target 2000 will amber with age)


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[John TenEyck]

Why would you want to apply the dye 3 times? Use a stronger concentration and do it once. Yes, tung oil will seal the dye but spray shellac will do it just as well and it will dry in a few minutes. Tung oil will take 2 or 3 days before you can put a WB poly over it.

If you want to use a wipe on finish I would use Arm-R-Seal. It's very pale. Here's what it looks like on curly maple:



With it you could simplify your finishing process to CN, dye, then straight to Arm-R-Seal.

John

[Chris Fiore]

I planned on only doing three coats on the curly maple hardwood. I want to use the technique where you and in between coats to make the figure pop more.