First Table Saw Advice

[Lucas Hurt]

Hi all,

I'm trying to decide what to get for my first table saw. I have some serious constraints. First is space. I have a very small man cave in the basement where I would like to keep the saw when not in use. When in use, it would either be outside or in the tiny shop depending on the size of wood I'm putting in it. Anything heavier than about 100 pounds is going to be just too difficult to move given my basement location.

Most of the project I currently envision for the saw are small, either related to model boat construction, or small boxes with the occasional cabinet through in. I have a circular saw and would use that to cut up any plywood to rough dimensions.

My primary consideration is the DW745. It cheap compared to other new options, has a small footprint, and could be built into a worktable in the shop if I end up using it a lot. On the other hand there are lots of well cared for old Craftsman 100 saws in my area for about half the price of the Dewalt. Without a wing, the table is similar in size to DW745. Basically I would be considering any smallish contractor type saw with a belt driven induction motor on the back. I think any type of hybrid saw will be too cumbersome to move outside for larger work pieces.

Pros for the Dewalt:
- more precise fence
- riving knife
- very easy to move
- small footprint
- dust collection?


Pros for an older used contractor saw:
- cast iron table
- larger top specifically larger throat distance for crosscutting on a sled
- induction motor (quieter indoors)
- cheaper

Probably my biggest question is which would be better for small joinery work found in box making. Is there any way to answer that? I suppose arbor runout and alignment when raising a lowering the blade are consideration? Anyone have experience to offer?

What else affects cut quality and accuracy? I assume both would have similar power in the motor, roughly 1hp. I'd be buying a new blade for either saw.

If this is simply a case of 6 of 1, half a dozen of the other, that would be useful information too.

Thanks for any opinions.

[Patrick Curry]

If you have $600 or so, I'd try to find a used 14" band saw and then also a used contractors saw. I don't have experience building model boats but I'm imagining thin and small wood strips, and curves.

I wouldn't personally buy a new contractors saw simply because the resale market offers so many, and at a substantially lower price (than new). If you go this route just be sure to get one with a decent fence. But then again, you might just need a cross cut sled on that contractors saw if these all small cuts.

I have a crappy 40 yr old hybrid TS and hate it (fence issues) so I use my 18" band saw for ripping whenever possible. Just get the right blades and you'll be set. Of that $600 I'm suggesting, spend something like $450 on the BS and $150 on the contractors saw.

If you were doing more with sheet goods I'd suggest track saws, but not for small cuts.

Hope at least some of this was helpful.

[Eric Schmid]

If you are going to be moving this saw in and out of a basement to use, the 745 is a good compact saw. It's not going to be much help in cabinet work due to the short fence rails (16" rip capacity?). Dust collection on the newer jobsite saws is much better as they have a blade shroud. The riving knife is also a huge plus for the newer saws. I have stuck with the Dewalt jobsite saws primarily for the fence.

You sound like a good candidate for a track saw though

[John Lankers]

The DeWalt has good rip capacity (I think it is around 24"), riving knife, relatively good dust collection and low weight.
The rip fence on the DeWalt is compared to most other saws in this category excellent and the miter gauge is garbage, you want to build a crosscut sled anyway regardless of which saw you're gonna buy.
The Bosch is more money but can be bought with integrated folding carriage.
Oh, btw. they are all screemers.

[C Scott McDonald]

I have the DW745 and it ok. It got me through a home remodel. It is easy to move for sure. The fence is ok not anything special. It is surprisingly loud for what it is. I didn't use it for fine woodworking but general construction and trim work and it was great for that.

[peter Joseph]

My shop is 81 sq ft (9x9) so I have the bosch on the gravity lift stand. It's a beast of a saw to be honest. I ripped 12/4 oak for my roubo all day long with a sharp thin kerf blade. The fence rails open up a little beyond 24 to rip down sheet goods if need be though I wouldn't try it solo with such a small table. It would be more than sufficient for your purposes.

And yes, as others have said, any of these direct drive saws are pretty loud.

[Frederick Skelly]

I havent tried the dewalt you are considering. But my first saw was a direct drive delta jobsite saw from a home center. I HATED that saw because the fence just wasnt good enough for making good quality rip cuts and the miter gauge wasnt much better for crosscutting. I didnt know then that jobsite saws (in that class) were for carpentry work rather than the pretty high quality cabinet and box work I wanted to do.

I gave it to a buddy and bought a used delta contractor saw. Mine came with a long biesemeyer fence but you can get smaller, quality fences to fit your space. I added an incra miter gauge and built a really nice stand on wheels. It moves around easily.

Some will differ, but many of the used contractor saws I tried had stock fences that were dramatically better than that darn direct drive saw.

If I did it over, I'd buy a track saw and a bandsaw as others suggested.

Another option in a small space is hand tools. You can often outfit a shop with a few used handsaws, used hand planes and chisels for less than buying a couple machines. You have the learning curve of sharpening and using them, but there's some enjoyment in that too. You can read about this option on our Neanderthal forum here.

Good luck! Look forward to seeing some of your work posted here!

Fred

[Michael Zerance]

I keep the 745 on the truck for site work. It is small and light and it has handle grips on the side making it really easy to load, unload, and maneuver. The fence is the main selling point though. It is dead on accurate and square no matter how much it gets knocked around. The rack and pinion really works well and smooth.

I believe that the manual states that a dado stack cannot be used on it (I never had a need to test this out). Also, the rip capacity is limited. You would need a good circular saw or track saw for larger work.

I did an out-of-state project for a friend and ended up selling him my 745 because he needed it to finish up the project and I figured it would give me the opportunity to upgrade to a bigger/better saw. I bought the Porter Cable saw and returned it the next day; what a piece of garbage. I played around with the Ridgid and the Bosch which were both too big and bulky with their attached stands. Eventually, I just got another 745 and couldn't be more content.

I purchased the scissor stand for it, DW7450, which folds up flat like a saw horse. The saw just sits on it without requiring bolts or clamps. It has a small footprint when setup and stores compactly in the corner of my van.

I never measured the arbor for runout but it always seemed to cut straight, square, and true. If I was going to have to move a saw in and out of a basement, this would be the only one I would consider.

[Prashun Patel]

IMHO, moving ANY saw - even a circular saw in and out of the basement is going to be more painful than it's worth. I would instead get a track saw and a router table.

In my opinion, smaller saws are ironically better suited to larger projects like cabinets where accuracy isn't as critical as it is for 'small boxes'. Those require the greatest accuracy. You can use a track saw for breaking down your parts, and then the router table for the joinery. A track saw will make cabinetry just fine.

[Lucas Hurt]

Wow, so many great responses. This is an amazing forum.
It sounds like the new saw isn't going to be very precise, but probably a cheap older saw won't either. Perhaps the best thing it to try it and see. Around here the used portable saws are nearly what a new one costs, kind of like a Subaru.

I do have a small band saw, but I really need to learn how to use it more creatively. I should start by getting a new blade. And spending some time practicing.

Interesting so many people recommended a track saw. That will take some further consideration due to my ignorance in techniques for using them, but mostly they are more expensive than either table saw option. A router for joinery is a pretty good idea, but I've literally never used one. Since I'm such a beginner, I want start with cheaper equipment, I'm not sure if this will be a lifelong hobby and where I live getting good resale value isn't too likely. With so much to learn, I really just need to start.

Thanks everyone.

[Prashun Patel]

"Since I'm such a beginner, I want start with cheaper equipment, I'm not sure if this will be a lifelong hobby and where I live getting good resale value isn't too likely. With so much to learn, I really just need to start."

I respect where you are in your journey. I was there. Research track saw systems. Yes, they are more expensive, but if you decide it's not worth it, you can sell it easily - if you buy a decent one.

Routers are not expensive. You can even find them used on CL regularly. You can make your own table.

Respectfully, I'd do some more research before choosing a path. I built quite a few projects with a circular saw, cordless drill and a hand held router.

[rudy de haas]

I have used various small contractor saws and think (a) that most are ok for rough work; (b) all of the fences suck (rigid's, for example, isn't rigid); and (c) they are much better for cutting easy woods like pine then hardwoods like Maple - and more dangerous than you might expect when cutting very hard woods like hickory or Jatoba, because, when something catches, you get the saw moving instead of the wood ripping.

A track saw will cost more and be somewhat harder to use if you do a lot of cut once, reposition, cut something else work, but will be easier to move up and down your stairs.

If everything you plan to make is small, consider going nuts and mounting a radial arm saw on your workbench, while leaving the larger table saw in the garage. Radial arm saws are cheap on the used market and what they do, they do well.

I have no experience with things like the ShopSmith multi-tool and thus don't know if they work well or not - but if you bought two of the main chassis units, you could have one downstairs and carry the individual bits up and down your stairs easily. There are shopsmith collectors, but lots of ok looking (to the inexperienced eye, anyway) used stuff available too.

[Phillip Mitchell]

Where do you live? Maybe a member who might be close by could offer some help?

[Phil Mueller]

Lucas, I have the 745 and it has served my needs well for a number of years. I'm in the same space restraints as you. I use it primarily for rough dimensioning, but have also used it to cut some very accurate miters for picture frames and the like.

Here's my "cons":

Large/long stock is a challenge...often requiring some sort of outfeed/infeed set up.
It's heavier than you think and doesn't slide around well. A mobil base would solve this issue.
Dust collection is poor, at best (typical of contractor's saws). It will throw sawdust everywhere. There are internet posts from a number of folks who have built enclosures to help with this.
It is loud.
The miter slot is ok...given it's formed plastic, some slot jigs can be sloppy if the jib's miter slot runners do not have a way to adjust them.
A number of pre-made jigs won't fit well given the miter slots are closer to the saw blade...some custom fitting is required (I've had to reposition a few miter slot runners on jigs to get them to work).
The saw blade angel adjustment markings are close, but not perfect...always check with an accurate miter guage and readjust as necessary.
Adjusting the alignment of saw blade/fence/miter slot is a pain. But once you do it once, it holds very well.
Won't take a dado stack

Pros:
Compact and stores away in a small space
Powerful enough for most work (I've even used it to resaw 6" wide boards)
Changing blades is easy
Fence is very accurate (front to back in relation to the blade)
Once the miter slot/blade/fence are aligned, it performs very well


Probably some things I can't think of right now...but, given your situation and your needs, I think you'd be happy with it...just need to realize it's never going to be a cabinet saw.

[Jim Dwight]

If you can find one used (they are no longer available) the Ryobi BT3100 is a very accurate saw with a good fence and is small enough to be moved like the DeWalt 745. I've had one for about 10 years. I had it set up with extension rails for 60 inch rip capacity but then I bought a DeWalt track saw and took off the extension rails. I still use it with the stock rails. It has a sliding miter table instead of a miter slot, it is belt driven (but with a universal motor) and will cut 3.5 inch deep, and will take a full dado stack. New I think I paid $300 for mine so you should be able to get it inexpensively used if you can find one. The BT3000 was first and is similar but some models have 12 amp (instead of 15 amp) motors and the shims, the weakness of this saw, are not as well designed. The shims are part of the height adjustment mechanism and must be lubricated periodically with a dry lube. I use paraffin. That is a bit of a pain but the saw is quite precise and might be a good fit for you.

Lease expensive track saw is the Grizzly. Reviews are not great but with a new blade (almost any brand will be better) some users like it just fine. I use a track saw for bigger pieces of wood and my BT3100 for smaller things.