Cermark Alternative? Try this and let me know your results...

[Brett Tossell]

I've tried the Moly Lube, and the plaster tricks - but I never was happy with the results.

Ever willing to experiment, and with a garage filled with odd geek toys, I tried putting some Kapton Tape on a tool and engraving (100W tube 70% Power at 5 mm/sec), and it seems to work pretty well.

It's consistent, and repeatable, and far cheaper than Cermark.

Does this work for you, or have I found the cold fusion of laser cutting?

Let me know your results. Sorry for the quality of the attached image - I can't seem to attach full size images.

Thanks,

bt

[Kev Williams]

At 5mm/second, your 100w tube should pretty much make SS black it's ownself--

At that speed, my 40w Synrad probably wouldn't put down a mark at all.

That all said, now I have to google "Kapton tape"

[Klaus Madsen]

Sorry, I just have to clarify this. You didn't do anything else than putting Kapton Tape on and then engrave??? Or do you put Dry moly on and then the tape? or.....?

I have just tried Dry moly myself and that worked fine.

[Brett Tossell]

No moly. I only applied a single layer of tape to that knife (it was clean and dry) - and then put it into the laser and cut. Once the tape was removed - those are the marks that are left. I've tried washing it, scrubbing it, and it seems those marks are on there for good - but this is why I'd like you guys to try this and let me know if it works for you.

I've since used this to mark tools, aluminum, razor blades, coins, pretty much anything not bolted down in the garage. I found it very consistent as long as the tape has good contact with the metal.

I have tried the moly spray with some moly lube I picked up at Granger - but for me, the Kapton tape provides a more reliable, repeatable result.

Hopefully this helps someone.

Sorry, I just have to clarify this. You didn't do anything else than putting Kapton Tape on and then engrave??? Or do you put Dry moly on and then the tape? or.....?

I have just tried Dry moly myself and that worked fine.

[Klaus Madsen]

Hmmm that sounds very Interesting. I don't know anything about Kapton Tape, so are there only one type, and thing I have to look for or be aware of?
I am living in New Zealand and it is sometimes very limited what we can get, but I found this :
http://www.makershop.co.nz/kapton_50mm Would that work.

By the way how did you get the idea to try the tape?

[Brett Tossell]

That's the stuff. I use it for 3d Printing as a bed coating depending on what materials I'm printing with, and it's found it's way into a handful of other projects as well - it's got some really cool properties (temperature resistance, electrical insulating properties, and good adhesion to certain polymers at different temperatures)

I buy it off Amazon here in the states - and it's sold in a variety of different widths - but the roll you're looking at online looks the same as the one in my shop, and I've now ordered a couple more. It's available through several industrial suppliers here - I think you'll be able to find some places in NZ that stock it for industrial users.

The idea just came from having it handy (my printers are next to my laser), and I'm dumb enough to try all kinds of experiments, and I'll stick pretty much anything in the laser. I also really wanted to learn metal marking, and I'm persistent enough I can usually find a way to kludge things together. I was curious knowing the laser makes some really special things happen at very high temperatures and that made me curious about the kapton.

I still don't know if this is good / safe / smart, - but I liked the cleanliness of the tape vs the splatter of the spraycans, and I'm hoping my fume extraction will keep me safe - but there's very little smell, and my extraction fan is oversize. I've now marked most of my tools in my workshop, and they're all holding up nicely. That knife I provided a picture of has been used, machine and hand washed many times now - and it's still looking great.

I'm happy with the results - and I wanted to share them to open the discussion and give something back to the community that's helped me.

Thanks for your input.

Hmmm that sounds very Interesting. I don't know anything about Kapton Tape, so are there only one type, and thing I have to look for or be aware of?
I am living in New Zealand and it is sometimes very limited what we can get, but I found this :
http://www.makershop.co.nz/kapton_50mm Would that work.

By the way how did you get the idea to try the tape?

[Gary Hair]

2619784[/URL]]That's the stuff. I use it for 3d Printing as a bed coating depending on what materials I'm printing with, and it's found it's way into a handful of other projects as well - it's got some really cool properties (temperature resistance, electrical insulating properties, and good adhesion to certain polymers at different temperatures)

I buy it off Amazon here in the states - and it's sold in a variety of different widths - but the roll you're looking at online looks the same as the one in my shop, and I've now ordered a couple more. It's available through several industrial suppliers here - I think you'll be able to find some places in NZ that stock it for industrial users.

The idea just came from having it handy (my printers are next to my laser), and I'm dumb enough to try all kinds of experiments, and I'll stick pretty much anything in the laser. I also really wanted to learn metal marking, and I'm persistent enough I can usually find a way to kludge things together. I was curious knowing the laser makes some really special things happen at very high temperatures and that made me curious about the kapton.

I still don't know if this is good / safe / smart, - but I liked the cleanliness of the tape vs the splatter of the spraycans, and I'm hoping my fume extraction will keep me safe - but there's very little smell, and my extraction fan is oversize. I've now marked most of my tools in my workshop, and they're all holding up nicely. That knife I provided a picture of has been used, machine and hand washed many times now - and it's still looking great.

I'm happy with the results - and I wanted to share them to open the discussion and give something back to the community that's helped me.

Thanks for your input.

Have you tried scrubbing it with a gray scotchbrite pad? My guess is that it will come off with very little effort.

[Brett Tossell]

I don't have a gray scotchbrite pad - but I've tried the scratchy side of a kitchen sponge multiple times, and I don't see it wearing. My fingernail wears out before the mark does.

I took the tip of a screwdriver - and you'll scratch the surface of the metal, and still see the line - you can definitely feel something with the screwdriver. I'm thinking this is going deeper into the metal. I'm sitting here at my desk using the back side of a papermate pen to try and scratch this off, and I'm wearing the pen body - and not the marking.

I don't have a microscope, but I'm really curious to see what this looks like - there's something, but I can't tell if it's a ridge or a valley.

I'll play more with it in the days ahead.

Have you tried scrubbing it with a gray scotchbrite pad? My guess is that it will come off with very little effort.

[Brett Winston]

I've tried the Moly Lube, and the plaster tricks - but I never was happy with the results.

Ever willing to experiment, and with a garage filled with odd geek toys, I tried putting some Kapton Tape on a tool and engraving (100W tube 70% Power at 5 mm/sec), and it seems to work pretty well.

bt

I assume that you tried lower power/faster speeds. What did those results look like? Thanks.

[Bert Kemp]

It looks like you vector engraved that dolphin have you tried an actual engraving? I just ordered a roll off Amazon just to try this stuff. I have no desire to try cermark, but this is cheap enough to try and mark some tools, maybe put my name on my knife what ever

[Kev Williams]

I brought up the 5mm/sec speed in my first post-- that's barely over 3/16" per second-- Maybe it's a typo and should read 50mm/sec?

engraving time @ 5mm/sec: --

in Corel, "THANK YOU" in 1/8" high Arial text (just about the actual size on my monitor as typed) = .956" long-- divided by the .197 ips speed = 4.85 seconds for ONE sweep--
at 500 lines res there will be 62 sweeps
62 x 4.85 seconds = 301 seconds, or just over 5 minutes engraving time...

That will never work for me!

But even at 50mm/second, we're still talking 30 seconds engraving time; my LS900 at 'cermark speed' ran it in 10 seconds, and with only 40 watts I doubt it has the power needed to render a black mark thru tape at all-

Cermark is expensive, but look at it this way: every $5 of SS engraving income costs me maybe 5 cents-- The 2mil plastic bag I put the $5 part in afterward cost 2 cents...

[Hannu Rinne]

I did a test with a Kapton tape and the results are quite satisfying (material is stainless steel).


Inside the banner is raster marked text and the banner outline has made with vector setting.
The vector line is sharp and quite dark. In nature the raster text is not as dark as in the picture, but still very visible.


Markings seem to be quite permanent, even comparing the results which are marked using Thermark.


At the same time I tested also the same raster text and the straight hairline without additive and with the same settings (in the picture above the banner).
The hairline (in nature) is more brown than black and more wider than with Kapton. The raster marking is kind of "shadow" on the top of ss.


Clearly the Kapton tape contains something usefull... So far I think that this is a very good find and could be very usefull in some cases.


The settings which I used in this case (60W laser);


Raster 20 speed / 100 power / 600 dpi
Vector 2 speed / 100 power / 600 dpi / 800 ppi


Brett, thank's a lot for the tip !

Regards,
Hannu

[Bruce Bob]

Has anyone tried using the laser on the bare stainless steel? My 60w did leave a mark on it. I dont remember how fast i went but it did work. It was very slow. The quality was actually pretty good. The cermark did a better job though. I just used a regular butter knife for my test.

[Gary Hair]

2619823[/URL]]I don't have a gray scotchbrite pad - but I've tried the scratchy side of a kitchen sponge multiple times, and I don't see it wearing. My fingernail wears out before the mark does.

I took the tip of a screwdriver - and you'll scratch the surface of the metal, and still see the line - you can definitely feel something with the screwdriver. I'm thinking this is going deeper into the metal. I'm sitting here at my desk using the back side of a papermate pen to try and scratch this off, and I'm wearing the pen body - and not the marking.

I don't have a microscope, but I'm really curious to see what this looks like - there's something, but I can't tell if it's a ridge or a valley.

I'll play more with it in the days ahead.

I ordered a roll to try it out - for $12 it's worth a try. I'm perfectly happy with Cermark and my fiber, but it would be nice to have another option. My guess is that it is somehow reacting with the metal due to its high heat resistance, maybe carbonizing the metal??? I do have a microscope and will look at it after I test it a bit. I'm betting it will be a raised mark though, can't see how it would possibly etch into the surface - we'll see soon enough!

[Hannu Rinne]

Gary,

A roll of Kapton tape (25mm wide) here up north about $ 35-40,00 - great to live here in cheap country