Crowded Shop! Should I get a combo machine?

[jack duren]

I used my 2 car garage to build cabinets for a living for two years. I have pretty much what you have in the garage, You made a comment of clearing "junk".

There is your problem.. Your not efficient with the space you have. You don't need a different machine but a good shop cleaning. Better organizing skills....

[Andy Giddings]

Agree with Jim - switching between functions is quick and pain free. Probably the slowest change is getting the shaper set up. Most of that is cutter height as fence depth can be made repeatable with the micro adjust fence and precision locators that are used to put the fence in place. Even the cutter height can be made repeatable by noting the spacers used and the spindle height reading. I think most of us use a workflow regardless of whether its separates or a combo so its not that much of a change IMHO

[Fred Falgiano]

Before you sell anything consider building or buying a shed to hold all the non shop items. Also search this site and the next for pictures of other people's shops and see if you can try to maximize your space.

Yep to Don's idea.

Also check out this link for mighty shelves. Free ideas on how to increase garage storage. I've built several sets of these and if you have high ceilings, you can add hundreds of square feet of storage to a garage/workshop that's up and out of the way.

http://contractorkurt.com/2012/02/18...mightyshelves/

[Al Launier]

Simple solution: Stop buying stuff in boxes!
Seriously, since you haven't done any woodworkin projects in the last two years, it appears your interest in woodworking is less important to you these days. So, it seems you need to make a choice:

1. Expand your shop, if you really want to continue woodworking,
2. Build some overhead head framework to store your wood & other seldom used tools. These can be made from 2x4s & hung from the ceiling joists and still provide adequate head clearance. I store most of my lumber this way.
3. Have a serious talk with your wife about your concerns & work out a mutual agreement that supports both of your needs.

Oops! I hadn't read Fred's post. Guess we were both on the same wave length, but my "hangers aren't as elaborate as what he showed. I just used a simple framework of 2 bys bolted together.

[Van Huskey]

I have nothing against combo machines and I am sure I could tailor my workflow to them quickly if I wanted or needed to and I am sure the OP can as well.

One other option if the clutter in the garage can't be urged is to rent a small storage unit, if you think about it they are actually cheap for the extra sqaure footage they provide. The other thing is pack it full of stuff and in a year everything that hasn't been touched gets carted to the dump or Goodwill.

Honestly, in a tight shop but with a lot of machine capablity you have the option of rolling machines in and out of place or changing over a combo machine. I don;t see a lot of difference but would choose a QUALITY combo machine if starting from scratch in a tight workspace. My suggestion is since you have machines (and I assume you are happy with them) clean and organize first and see where that gets you.

If you are just looking for an excuse then combo machines are the best thing since sliced bread and you would be silly not to buy them NOW.

[Kevin Post]

Regarding the shed and parking outside suggestions, the covenants in my neighborhood do not permit parking vehicles outside, out-buildings or garden sheds. My shop is also a garage with cars, bikes, sporting goods, lawn chairs, garbage cans, recycling bins, lawn mower, wheel barrow, shovels, rakes, ladders and myriad of other tools not for woodworking (e.g. plumbing, electrical, masonry, tile). All of this stuff gets used and moved around. Lawn chairs and boating gear go into the attic space during winter. The lawn mower, rakes and trimmer get tucked out of the way in winter and the snow shovels and snow-blower come out of their corner. It's a bit like the flight deck on an aircraft carrier (cramped and busy) without a crew to help. When there is open space, since nature abhors a vacuum, naturally it gets filled quickly.

With all due respect, the comments about getting organized are sort-of "Well, duh... Thanks!" obvious. That is, after all, my ultimate goal. I'm trying to make better use of the space I have and part of getting organized might be to change up the tools I use. You may recall my original post, "My theory… If I can sell 4 large machines (tablesaw, planer, jointer and shaper (and moulder?)) and replace them with 1 combo machine which can remained parked centrally in the space I'll make better use of the space I have and hopefully improve my productivity with a better machine. Thoughts? "

For those offering suggestions... Thanks (really), but I'm really not looking for marital advice. I already have overhead storage of the type Fred and Al suggested over both double-garage doors (an idea I got here years ago, I think). Great idea... I've installed cabinets I scrounged from a hospital remodel for finishing supplies, automotive and marine supplies, pesticides, sand paper, etc. I have clamp racks on the walls along with storage for saw blades, shaper cutters, chisels. I have steel pallet racks where I store lumber (I have a lot). It is stacked on the top shelf to preserve floor space, boxed tools (jigs, track saw, routers, jig saw, drills, sanders, biscuit jointer, etc) are stored on the middle shelf within my reach. Floor-standing machines on mobile bases get rolled into the ground-floor space beneath these racks.

My original question was about the idea of acquiring a combination machine to replace several large stationary tools. It was directed at people who own or use them to determine whether my idea about gaining space and gaining productivity through the use of such a machine has merit. Jim Becker has taken time to provide some answers in this regard. Others have pointed out the challenges of changing over setups. I'd like to hear more about this.

Maybe a combination machine is not the way to go. I'd like to hear more from owners and people who have used them.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, I replaced a General cabinet saw, jointer, planer and shaper with a Hammer 12" jointer/planer and a Hammer B3 Winner saw/shaper with the comfort package and the 50 inch sliding table.

The above really saved space in my townhouse basement shop, and dramatically improved the capacity, safety, accuracy and convenience with respect to machine operations.

If you have unlimited space and money, separates are better, if not combination machines provide far more features and benefits, including capacity than separates. Very few of us own a 12" or 16" standard jointer, yet they're the most common size for combo machines.

You couldn't convince me to go back to NA style machinery for compact shops..........Regards, Rod.

P.S. A small slider like mine has a smaller footprint that a cabinet saw, yet drop on the outrigger and I can crosscut a sheet of plywood with one finger, and have a scoring saw to boot for chip free cuts. Take 2 minutes and the outrigger is off and hung on the shop wall, no need for a RAS or a CMS, the slider does it all and more.

[Wade Lippman]

If it were me, I would get rid of the shaper, molder, and RAS; and put my router table into my table saw.

You would save a huge amount of space. I'd love to have a shaper, but for the once in a while a router table isn't adequate, I just can't justify it. Of course, you might need it daily.

I actually went to the LasVegas show about 8 years ago to shop for combo machines because I had such a small shop. All the dealers told me that they weren't practical in small shops because you need room all around them. Obviously that isn't everyone's experience, but it is why I went with separates.

[Dave Macy]

I don't have much room in my parent's garage. They have a two car garage and I get about 1/4 of it. Everything is on wheels and I'm using a jointer/planer combo and it works great. It's nice and quiet especially compared to our neighbors 735.

[glenn bradley]

Move the RAS, CMS and shaper into the kitchen. Seriously, you do have a lot of stuff for your footprint. Choosing the tools to keep will be a personal challenge. My CMS lives out in the shed as it is primarily a construction tool for me and therefor can't earn its keep where I make furniture. The RAS and I parted company long ago after a serious conversation about usefulness versus real estate requirements. Unless you make a lot of dados that are within the capacity of your RAS I would tag that as the next most likely tool I could live without. The shaper follows closely behind unless I am doing beaucoup lineal feet of a given profile . . . and I am not.

I can already hear the howls from those who cannot live without their RAS or CMS or shaper. You need to determine if you are one of these folks or not. Believe me I would kick and scream if you tried to get my router table, bandsaw, shoulder plane, spoke shaves or other items I consider essential. We all have certain tools that are indispensable to how we have decided to do certain tasks. I base my approach to a given task based on the tools I know I will use for it. If the RAS, CMS and shaper are your go-to's then you have to pay the price in real estate; let go of something else.

I enjoy separates for the jointing and planing tasks but, this is mostly habit seasoned by the price for a combo that I feel meets the quality of the separates. Don't get me wrong, things like the Hammer A3-31 are appropriately priced. If I didn't already own machines that are likely to follow me to the tomb I would seriously consider 'going there' if space demanded it.

P.s. Bear in mind that all this blathering comes from someone who:
A. Has never put a car in a garage; why would someone do that!?!
B. Has an extremely low tolerance for ANYTHING being in the shop that does not belong in the shop; OK, the water heater pretty much has to stay and doesn't really get in the way.
C. Is looking to add an additional shed to the back yard for more non-shop storage as the kitchen is getting crowded; OK, I made that last part up ;-)

[Ken Fitzgerald]

MiniMax/SCM sells direct in the US. Sam Blasco, a member here at SMC, is your friendly MiniMax/SMC rep. He's also a craftsman, trainer and outstanding "jig maker". One thing he can do is help you locate others in your area who have machines and will allow you to take a look. They might not have the same machine or machines you might be considering, but it will help you see the quality and so forth and also get candid comments from an actual owner/user. I've had a number of folks visit here who were considering purchases. Other manufacturers, such as Felder, will likely be able to do the same for you.

As to installation...yes, you can pay a fee to have someone install Euro machinery, but honestly, it's not absolutely necessary to do that. Un-crating, cleaning and implementing the machinery is a great way to get to know it "intimately" and there's not all that much "setup" to do, in my experience. For my slider, I picked it up at the trucking company docks (they loaded it on my trailer with a forklift) and brought it to the shop. With some help from a few friends (coffee and donuts supplied... ), it was moved into my shop and put in place. A pallet jack took care of the final placement. (Theres a pictorial thread here at SMC about that)

Jim....Sam is no longer employed by Mini-Max. He's working for a wood company now IIRC. This change just took place a few weeks ago.

[Geoff Crimmins]

Jim....Sam is no longer employed by Mini-Max. He's working for a wood company now IIRC. This change just took place a few weeks ago.

Ken, are you sure you're not thinkingof Erik Loza? Or did Sam also leave Minimax?


--Geoff

[Robert Engel]

Before you sell anything consider building or buying a shed to hold all the non shop items. Also search this site and the next for pictures of other people's shops and see if you can try to maximize your space.

Beat me to it!!

[Jim Becker]

Jim....Sam is no longer employed by Mini-Max. He's working for a wood company now IIRC. This change just took place a few weeks ago.

That's Erik who has the new job...

[Peter Kelly]

That said, I believe the LAB300 Plus from MiniMax retails for around the same price.
https://www.scmgroup.com/en/products...b-300-plus.647

Sam is still with MiniMax / SCM North America. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/member.php?3847-Sam-Blasco