Crowded Shop! Should I get a combo machine?

[Kevin Post]

I have a space problem which is affecting my ability to enjoy my woodworking hobby. Over the years I've accumulated a bunch of machines which are now squeezed into half of a 4-car garage (my shop).

The major list:
A Jet cabinet saw with a 52" Biesemeyer fence ('big' problem)
Jet 15" planer
Jet 6" jointer
dust collector
work bench
Delta 3HP Shaper with feeder
William & Hussey Moulder
Drill Press
router table
Delta mortiser
Delta drum sander
Jet bandsaw with riser
Old DeWalt radial arm saw
Dewalt miter saw on portable stand
DeWalt track saw
Air compressor
Rolling automotive tool cabinet
Everything is on wheels and I have 120 and 220 power outlets everywhere.

I know what you're thinking. "WHAT??? No lathe???" :-)

Now add, pallet racks I use for wood storage and assorted small power tools (sanders, saws, routers, drills) planes, jigs, loads of clamps, spray equipment and an accumulation of hardware and non-woodworking tools like wrenches, jacks.

Then, lawn equipment, fishing gear, bikes, sports gear (hockey, lacrosse, soccer), a fridge, lawn chairs, hoses and anything else the wife thinks doesn't belong in the house which usually consists of empty cardboard boxes from Amazon, Pottery Barn and various shoe deliveries. She literally throws them out the door leading into the garage from the house into a pile in the middle of the 'shop'.

There isn't enough space. When I want to work on something, first I need to clean the garage, break down the cardboard to take to recycling, clear all the junk which accumulates on every horizontal surface (table saw, radial saw table and workbench) then roll the tools I won't be using out of the way to make room for the tools I need to use, connect dust collection and power. By the time I'me ready to work, I've burned 4 hours and may work another 4 hours on a project before leaving it to do other things like mowing the lawn or fishing or the 'honey-do' list. By the time I get back to it, more cardboard has arrived and the clutter has returned. The empty floor space has now been filled with something like a dog crate Christmas decorations my sweetie decided to move to the garage in order to gain more room in a closet. I know I'm whining but my frustration is real. Long story short, I don't do much woodworking anymore despite being fortunate enough to have all this equipment. I spend most of my spare time fishing and the wife needles me about having a shop full of tools I never use. She's right! I have literally given up woodworking for the past two years; not one project besides a couple of cutting boards.

I think I may have a solution. Sell the tablesaw, planer, jointer and shaper then but a combination machine. I've heard names like Felder, Minimax, Laguna, Baileigh but I know absolutely nothing about them. I have never seen one of these machines in person nor have I found any dealer nearby who sells/services them. I have no source of information. I've heard they offer things like sliding tables and other engineering improvements which make them safer to use. I've also heard they're pretty expensive.

My theory… If I can sell 4 large machines (tablesaw, planer, jointer and shaper (and moulder?)) and replace them with 1 combo machine which can remained parked centrally in the space I'll make better use of the space I have and hopefully improve my productivity with a better machine. Thoughts?

-Where can I see and touch them? Who sells them?
-How much would I have to spend to get a 'good machine'?
-Do any of you guys have any of these machines? (Things you like/don't like?)

[Jim Andrew]

I would lock up my shop and not give my wife a key if she threw all the refuse into it.

[Matt Day]

First make sure you need all the stuff you have. How often do you use your mortiser? Do you need a RAS and SCMS?

Pics of your shop would help too.

[Kevin Post]

She would then lock me in the shop. Unfortunately, the other two stalls of this four-car, attached garage are where we park our vehicles so locking her out isn't an option. In fairness, the space issue isn't all her fault but it is still frustrating when she simply moves things out to the garage/shop and leaves it to me to figure out what to do with then. Often, the solution is simply to move the stuff back into the house and jam it into one of the closets again, "How did you like that, sweetie? Your move..."

Combo machines... (not wife-bashing).

[Andrew Howe]

P lus one on a locked shop. That is pretty disrespectful. AS for the tools, yes sell it all and go with festool. THIS what I am thinking of doing.

[Jim Becker]

Combination machines can be a solution for what you propose as long as you can position the unit such that you have adequate infeed and outfeed space to support them, particularly for the wagon of the sliding table saw. For an 8'6" slider, you'll need about 19-20' total for the entire end-to-end throw of the slider. That's doable in most shops of the size you have. And given that the jointer/thicknesser capacities are generally wider than many folks typically have with separates, there are functional advantages to the combo machine, too.

That said, there is also a learning curve for the slider (not a big deal, but something that needs to be part of the plan) as well as workflow habits to be established to optimize movement between the machine functions.

For my particular shop, I went with a separate J/P and a sliding table saw because of space constraints. And I'm very pleased with everything. My gear is from MiniMax.

[Kevin Post]

First make sure you need all the stuff you have. How often do you use your mortiser? Do you need a RAS and SCMS?

1) Believe it or not, I use (or used, rather) the mortiser a bunch. It's a bench-top unit I store on a shelf, not a floor-standing machine.
2) The miter saw isn't a SCMS, just a 12" chop saw I use more for home improve projects (trim carpentry, decks) than WWing. It's on a mobile/fold-up stand tucked out of the way.
3) The DeWalt RAS is older than me and belonged to my dad. I rarely use it except for quick cross-cuts. I did use it to cut some tenons for a post/beam picnic shelter I helped build about 10 years ago. Otherwise, it sits in a corner of the 'garage side' of the garage behind the snow-blower. It's not technically in the shop. I've tried selling it and even offered to give it away a couple of times but nobody seems to want it given the capabilities provided by a SCMS (safer too) + a table saw. It isn't a tool which is highly sought-after or widely used anymore but I can't simply throw it away.

Thanks for the thoughtful questions. In response to the line of reasoning behind your questions...of course I could sell other stuff but the table saw is the big target for me. I don't need that long fence or large table on my cabinet saw after discovering how easily I can break down sheet goods using a track saw. That's the main reason I'd considered trading it for something smaller. When I started researching table saws, I came across a sliding table saw then stumbled upon a web page featuring a MiniMax 5-in-1 combo tool and the light-bulb came on. That's primarily what I'm inquiring about...those combo machines.

-Kevin

[Kevin Post]

...you have adequate infeed and outfeed space to support them, particularly for the wagon of the sliding table saw. For an 8'6" slider, you'll need about 19-20' total for the entire end-to-end throw of the slider.

Thanks, Jim. I considered that but knowing about how much is needed for that slider is helpful. I think I'd have enough space plus I envisioned gaining some efficiency by not shifting other tools around and out of the way to gain the necessary in-feed and out-feed for planing, jointing, ripping, moulding tasks. My assumption is with a combination machine like the MiniMax and others, that in-feed/out-feed path is shared in common rather than in conflict with each of those tasks. I figured could park it in the middle and perhaps even position it diagonally to get maximum end-to-end clearance.

I think my biggest issue is with the size of the extended table and fence on the cabinet saw. The two issues, a) it's always in the way, b) the horizontal surface provides a landing-zone for clutter. I could opt for a different fence and table but keep the saw. I'm just curious about whether the combo machine would prove to be a better solution and allow me to get rid of four individual stationary machines.

Since you have gear from MiniMax, how are those machines sold? Dealers or direct? You're in PA and I'm in Wisconsin so dealer recommendations won't do me any good but are there competing dealers or are you simply stuck with the price you get on one of these? I also read that they don't simply ship them to you, they send someone to install and set it up. Is this true?

[Andy Giddings]

My answer would be yes to a Combo - love mine and takes less space in terms of footprint. Most combos these days are very quick to switch between functions. There are quite a few threads on here about the different brands - you really can't go wrong with any of the market leaders but can easily spend months agonizing about which one to get :-)

[Don Jarvie]

Before you sell anything consider building or buying a shed to hold all the non shop items. Also search this site and the next for pictures of other people's shops and see if you can try to maximize your space.

[Andy Giddings]

Kevin, if you are interested, a CF741 combo machine has just gone up for sale in the Felder Owners Group for $17.5k (new was $25k). Machine was purchased in 2012

[Jim Becker]

Since you have gear from MiniMax, how are those machines sold? Dealers or direct? You're in PA and I'm in Wisconsin so dealer recommendations won't do me any good but are there competing dealers or are you simply stuck with the price you get on one of these? I also read that they don't simply ship them to you, they send someone to install and set it up. Is this true?

MiniMax/SCM sells direct in the US. Sam Blasco, a member here at SMC, is your friendly MiniMax/SMC rep. He's also a craftsman, trainer and outstanding "jig maker". One thing he can do is help you locate others in your area who have machines and will allow you to take a look. They might not have the same machine or machines you might be considering, but it will help you see the quality and so forth and also get candid comments from an actual owner/user. I've had a number of folks visit here who were considering purchases. Other manufacturers, such as Felder, will likely be able to do the same for you.

As to installation...yes, you can pay a fee to have someone install Euro machinery, but honestly, it's not absolutely necessary to do that. Un-crating, cleaning and implementing the machinery is a great way to get to know it "intimately" and there's not all that much "setup" to do, in my experience. For my slider, I picked it up at the trucking company docks (they loaded it on my trailer with a forklift) and brought it to the shop. With some help from a few friends (coffee and donuts supplied... ), it was moved into my shop and put in place. A pallet jack took care of the final placement. (Theres a pictorial thread here at SMC about that)

[Eric Rimel]

Pretty sure every person working out of a garage has some of the same issues. I'm not a combo machine 'brasher', but I know how I work and breaking down set-ups before a complete process in a project is done is a 'no-no' in my world. I can't imagine sharing a tablesaw fence with a router set in the outfeed or side table so swapping jointer/planer/tablesaw obviously wouldn't work well for me. I sometimes get whole consecutive days of shop time. Sometimes only a couple hours. I think I'm more productive with stand-alone machines. I can leave things set up if/when I need to.


I'd clean the space, buy a shed, put that radial arm saw and lawn/garden tools in it and put a recycling space in its place, re-evaluate after you've maximized the space you have. I'd also park my car outside if I had to.

[Jim Becker]

Eric, in my experience, there's very little time between setups and with good workflow planning for a project, that doesn't really interfere much. For folks who do find it constraining, a J/P combo and slider or saw/shaper separately can work very well. That's how my shop is setup. I thought I might get frustrated originally since like you, I have very limited shop time, but it's never actually been an issue.

[Cary Falk]

Combo machines do not fit the way I work. I have 1/3 of a 3 car garage. I have all of the equipment plus a lathe. Everything is on wheels. Household stuff in the Rubbermaid shed. I feel your pain. I make it work.