Zinsser shellac advice wanted

[Patrick Chase]

I took the plunge - probably pretty safe (albeit it pricey!) - to use General Finishes QTHS High Performance Water Based Topcoat. Via Amazon as it is not available in Oz, and I cannot find something similar.


I was alerted me to a review done by FWW in 2006. This, along with recommendations from a few others, really supported its choice as the top finish that was clear (non-yellowing), non plastic finish, maximum protection, able to be applied with a foam brush, and quick drying for re-coating.

Yep, IIRC their top 2 were that General finish and the Hydrocote one I suggested, though I'd forgotten about that article when I wrote my earlier posts. Minwax Polycrylic didn't fare so well.

EDIT: I just went back and looked at that article, and remembered why I didn't recommend the General finish: They scored the color as "light yellow" vs "clear" for Hydrocote Resisthane and Minwax Polycrylic. I've never used that General finish, though, and the difference may be trivial.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Patrick

I'm a bit puzzled by the comment of "light yellow" as the other reports say white. The fact sheet states ..

Colors: Water White (dries clear).

Edit to add video: Here is a video of the finish going onto a light wood - do not do as the presenter does and shake the can. To avoid bubbles, stirr the contents instead ...



A comment made in this video was that the initial colour appear to be slightly yellow as it dries, but once dry it is clear and colourless. There are examples of several woods without finish, with water-based finish, and with oil-based finish. The water-based finishes all had the same tone as the bare wood.


Regards from Perth

Derek

[Brian Holcombe]

Derek,

You may find Chris' notes on finishing to be of interest;

http://thecarpentryway.blogspot.com/...e-deal-36.html

[Derek Cohen]

Thanks Brian.

Chris confirms that water-based finishes are more stable than oil-based finishes, which is what I have been reading. He used a slightly different finish, but which seems to ave similar properties in application.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Pat Barry]

From my perspective, the Minwax Polycrylic worked pretty nicely on BORG pine cabinet that had been stained with a Minwax color (Fruitwood I believe). I liked the easy cleanup, the easy spread with a foam applicator, the minimal layer thickness and easy to build with multiple application cycles. I also felt that the base color was not affected significantly. It stayed very true to original color without yellowing. I can't comment on ultimate durability however. I think if your cabinets have door handles though, that durability shouldn't be a big issue. I think the finished / cured surface was smooth (non porous) and should clean up easily with soap and water.

[Jerry Olexa]

One further thought on shellac...I love using it: no brush lines, easy repair, easy blend, you choose degree of lustre by your padding, etc...I always make my own from flakes, always non waxed and always pad it on...The finish is exceptional in my view and easily be topcoated or waxed. The next step above my regimen is french polish,,,

[Patrick Chase]

Hi Patrick

I'm a bit puzzled by the comment of "light yellow" as the other reports say white. The fact sheet states ..

Colors: Water White (dries clear).

After my stint as a mechanical engineer I did image-processing and color for a while, and one of the first things you learn is that there's no such thing as "clear" in the real world. All finishes have some color to them

I just looked at the article again and noticed the reviewer used a spectrophotometer, which is a much more sensitive instrument than the human eye. I have one at home, but wouldn't use it to determine finish suitability for exactly that reason. It's terrific for *matching* finishes though since you can measure a single coat and accurately determine whether you'll be able to match your reference color and what thickness you'll need to get there.

It appears that he may have set his threshold between "clear" and "light yellow" impractically tight. That's frankly a common mistake made by people who have a fancy spectrophotometer but lack deeper understanding of color and human perception thereof.

[Joshua Hancock]

I wouldnt use Zissner straight out of the can, it is a 3 lb cut and is very difficult to control. I usually cut it with an equal amount of denatured alchohol and then apply at least 3 coats. For a top coat, since it is waxed shellac, I have found that paste wax works very very well. I made a "temporary" transition between the living room and kitchen that still looks great the despite the best efforts of 4 children and 2 dogs over the course of 2 years. If I need to acentuqte the grain, I firat put downa wash coat of boiled linseed oil qnd then apply the shellac and wax. Keep in mind that shellac is not qlchohol resistant and wax does not resist heat well at all. And you find both in abundance in a kitchen.

While a friend of mine and I were building his kitchen, a local cabinet maker around here advised us to use a water based crystal clear floor finish ( varathane I think) . Since we were working in red oak we applied a base of Minwax sanding sealer, and then topcoated it with the floor finish. We were able to spray it using the cheapy harbor freight purple gun( though I do believe you can wipe on/brush both of them), and water based isnt as sensitive to temperature and humidity. The results were a lovely, durable finish that is easy to clean with grain accentuation.

Just my 2 cents.

[Prashun Patel]

This apples to Zinsser Bullseye not Zinsser Sealcoat.

[Joshua Hancock]

Thanks for pointing that distinction out Prashun. IIRC, Sealcoat is a 2lb cut straight from the can, and therefore pretty controllable.