Finishing cherry that will live like a vampire?

[Andrew Wayland]

BLO on cherry leads to blotching, at least it did on this comparative set of samples:



Arm-R-Seal gloss on the left, the middle is Sealcoat shellac then ARS, and the right is BLO then ARS. To me, the BLO one looks bad.

John

Is it just me, or is the ARS quite blotchy too?

im starting to wonder if it's time to cut my losses and go with Mahogany the rest of the way? Or does that have similar finishing issues?

[Jim Becker]

BLO on cherry leads to blotching, at least it did on this comparative set of samples:



Arm-R-Seal gloss on the left, the middle is Sealcoat shellac then ARS, and the right is BLO then ARS. To me, the BLO one looks bad.

John

And for me...like happen to like the BLO version the best. Very subjective.

[Andrew Wayland]

I've read a little more: and one avenue I may try is lye.

it seems to offer lots of benefits: natural cherry look... no blotches.... inexpensive.

Anybody have any input?

[Sam Murdoch]

I have finished quite a few cherry pieces with foam oven cleaner. The resulting color is more brown than red. You will find it very challenging to finish all parts to an equal color. The length of time and the specific board effect the color. Andrew - if I may - you sound too particular to be happy with the results of the lye coloring. As you suggested earlier - maybe cherry is the wrong species for your project.

[Andrew Wayland]

I have finished quite a few cherry pieces with foam oven cleaner. The resulting color is more brown than red. You will find it very challenging to finish all parts to an equal color. The length of time and the specific board effect the color. Andrew - if I may - you sound too particular to be happy with the results of the lye coloring. As you suggested earlier - maybe cherry is the wrong species for your project.

I appreciate your honesty!

Do you feel the extra chemicals in the oven cleaner had any effect on that color? I suppose I could also try the Lye and if not happy, I could try and stain after the fact...

[Sam Murdoch]

I appreciate your honesty!

Do you feel the extra chemicals in the oven cleaner had any effect on that color? I suppose I could also try the Lye and if not happy, I could try and stain after the fact...

I couldn't know. I do like the effect so I did not consider the subtleties.

Here is a cherry cabinet with the oven cleaner treatment top coated with Watco oil. The drawer fronts are Carpathian Elm burl veneer not treated. Otherwise the cabinet is all cherry. At the client request I did some distressing and some charring too but the overall color is the brown oven cleaner cherry. You can see some blotchiness but I did not consider that a distraction. "It's the beauty of the wood."

Elm-Tansu.jpg

[Andrew Wayland]

I couldn't know. I do like the effect so I did not consider the subtleties.

Here is a cherry cabinet with the oven cleaner treatment top coated with Watco oil. The drawer fronts are Carpathian Elm burl veneer not treated. Otherwise the cabinet is all cherry. At the client request I did some distressing and some charring too but the overall color is the brown oven cleaner cherry. You can see some blotchiness but I did not consider that a distraction. "It's the beauty of the wood."

Elm-Tansu.jpg

I actually like it. I'm going for an "old English pub" feel, but with a little more class. I enjoyed the color of our "cherry" furniture which is why I started with cherry before I started researching.

That piece is very nice: and I love the idea that the wood is "natural" in you simply age it without adding stains.

Would you care care to share the steps you took? I'm going to try a lye concoction on some samples today, but I'm curious if the oven cleaner would be easier? I'm most interested in what you used (if anything) to neutralize the oven cleaner, and how long you left it on to work.

[Sam Murdoch]

You are exactly right. Aged cherry without the need to stain. Still, in my experience, cherry that has been finished with oil or varnish does not develop this "brown" but more to the amber/red a likely result of the finish aging along with the cherry. I have another small table in my living room that was finished the same way.

As for my process: (As I recall)

• Spray foam Easy Off.

• I did multiple test runs to watch the time as the dark effect developed.

• Once I decided on 3 or 4 or 8 minutes I applied the foam liberally and spread evenly with a foam brush.

• After the time was up I wiped off with old t-shirts. You can watch the color develop and as I noted earlier some boards respond differently or at different rates. You just need to pay attention and wipe off accordingly. You can always recoat and wipe off until you see what you prefer.

• Rinse off was with a vinegar water solution. I think more vinegar than water but worth the google to be sure.

• After all was thoroughly dry I sanded as needed and finished with several coats of WATCO. Any oil or varnish finish would do. Waterlox is exceptionally durable as a bar finish. I have now started to use MONOCOAT rather than Waterlox and I am very very happy with how that looks and feels THOUGH I can not say if it develops a more durable finish than Waterlox. I have not tested. Still, MonoCoat was developed as a one coat floor finish - seems very tough. It is now my favorite oil finish - VERY EXPENSIVE - but I have experimented with using it OVER Watco with great results. That's for another thread.

I decided without trying straight lye that the Easy Off was a more safe product. Of course - gloves and eye protection and a long sleeve shirt and maybe a rubber shop apron, are essentials in any case. I have not RECENTLY studied the ingredients of oven cleaners so can't say with any certainty that Easy Off is the current go-to product for this purpose. Others might know more than I. Has been at least a decade since I did this last.

[Andrew Wayland]

Let's see if I can post photos (let me know if you don't see them...)

I did a little trial run this afternoon with some of the scrap cherry ply I used. I'll admit, I didn't do any prep at all, so results may vary:

Here's the before (you can see the Board labeled Lye is quite dirty on one end)

IMG_0279.jpg

Here's the after: the middle is the Board labeled Lye from above. The left is another board from the same piece of ply that I quickly sanded with 220. The Right board is a piece I quickly hit with Danish oil.

I did this all at 2pm today, applied my Lye solution, and let air dry in my garage. Nothing more. I took this photo at 4:30pm today.
IMG_0283.jpg

The middle is exactly what I'm looking for... so I may try a few more samples. I'm intrigued as to why the left came out so brown, when it's really from the same cut!

[Sam Murdoch]

I'll admit, I didn't do any prep at all, so results may vary:

I think you know the answer . Try doing the lighter piece again. I do think it's a good idea to prep to - ready to receive finish - knowing that after the treatment you will need to sand again. At the least you want every thing to the same level of prep.

[Andrew Wayland]

I'm repeating the experiment today, this time with 100% lye crystals (I thought I had 100% lye, but it had some other ingredients for drain cleaning). I figured using 100% lye will take out some variables that other chemicals add.


Im still letting it air dry after applying with a rag. I did try adding a vinegar solution 5 minutes in to one piece just to see if it stops the reaction? (I'm curious if "open time" on the wood has any effect on how dark it becomes).

Its also very cold today (30*F).... so I'm curious how that will affect the reaction too.

Finally I'm curious if the Lye solution will have any effect on the plywood?

I'm hoping this works well. The idea of not staining and letting the wood speak for itself is really becoming attractive to me.

[Stan Calow]

Andrew, I've used lye (drain cleaner) on cherry three times, mahogany twice. I like the color, but there is a challenge in laying down the solution quickly and evenly so as not to show lap marks. So use a big enough test piece that you practice the technique as well as the color. For me, I thought the reaction was instantaneous, so that contact time was not a factor, concentration was. But practice till you feel comfortable. Please be careful that stuff is nasty.

[Andrew Wayland]

Andrew, I've used lye (drain cleaner) on cherry three times, mahogany twice. I like the color, but there is a challenge in laying down the solution quickly and evenly so as not to show lap marks. So use a big enough test piece that you practice the technique as well as the color. For me, I thought the reaction was instantaneous, so that contact time was not a factor, concentration was. But practice till you feel comfortable. Please be careful that stuff is nasty.

Interesting. How did you apply it? Nylon brush? I've honestly been applying it pretty heavy so it can absorb evenly.

At what point, if any, did you neutralize the Lye solution?

[Stan Calow]

Andrew, I wiped it on with a rag, and did not leave on for more than a few minutes. I was concerned about the impact of the water on raising grain, so wiped off quickly, a water rinse, then weak vinegar, and another water rinse. I am hoping you'll get more experienced "lyers" to share with you.

[Andrew Wayland]

I played around today with a larger piece of cherry ply: it certainly didn't look as great as I had hoped! It was very blotchy.

Ill have to to try again tomorrow with a brush to see how that does. I'm also considering a pressure garden sprayer to get it on evenly, but that could be a bit hairy with overspray and fine mist (I do have a respirator, but still...)