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Right now an scm S630 class is at the top of my list of planers. Seems to be the best bang for the buck. Casadei has one that looks good too, and in the same price range, but I don't know much about the brand other than there is a lot of Buselleto cnc's around here.
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Peter and Martin
SCM has some impressive technology .. The Pneumatically operated feed rollers seem clever. Not sure I would change the pressure much myself, but there are probably people who would.
The feed rollers are all easily removable so you can swap them.. again, not sure I would but it would be easy to send them to be re-surfaced in 20 years ..
They have a module that slows the feed down automatically if you stress the main motor. That makes a lot of sense because the sharpness of the blades will have a huge effect on the power needed to surface a board. A 1/4" cut on 2x12 on new blades is way easier than 3 month old blades.
Martin's people are by far the best trained that I've seen. You can ask them almost anything.. if they don't know, you get an email from some guy in Germany 24 hours later with an answer that makes perfect sense.
I want a controller that you punch in the depth of cut . say 2.00 inches.. then set the rise on the table.. say .15 inches. then each time you press a button.. the table rises .15 .. Also want it to be able to operate Imperial or Metric, and to be 2 speed on the rise fall motor .. so it doesn't take forever to reach the height.
The Martin is almost 1000 lbs heavier than the other two. Which is kinda Martin's thing.
Peter. I've seen all the machines at the AWFS show .. The SCM Invincible planer was in Atlanta about 3 years ago .. I agree that neither Felder or SCM's fit and finish is as nice as Martin. I remember the Martin is really quiet. Probably because its so heavy.
Any of the three are a fine machine. Felder has numbered cutters on their cutterhead. I love that idea .. I had a helical cutterhead .. you dull the middle way faster than the outside edges.. I would try to mark the ones that where turned with a black pen.. lol . Ugh..
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One of my tooling reps calls them Bustsalotto. No idea if that is true, just funny.Originally Posted by Martin Wasner
JR
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the best improvement i could make to my 50 year old SCM planer would be a dial in speed feed motor like the Woodmaster has. I get you draw more with your knives not being as sharp and depending on your depth of cut., you can control that stuff. I cant control my feed rate one speed. If you can control your feed rate you can plane figured stuff and not have issues, in that way my little modified woodmaster can out perform the SCM and thats a bit sad really as the SCM is strong solid machine. Ive kicked the feed rollers in and out a bunch of times to slow it, engage disengage engage disengage back and forth before its up to speed that type of thing but its not ideal. I have to find a way to get a seperate variable rate gear motor onto the gear box and that will make it a better machine.
being able to decide your speed more for the figure of the wood
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for you guys that have the Hoffman Machine there I have an older Morso, same machine that was for picture frames. Picked up for the price of a saw blade with an extra set of fresh knives. I took the picture frame stuff off stuff off it and made a back fence and use it for beaded face frames and mitered profile doors. It works well but not good without all the fancy fence stuff, it also cant clean out out the haunch, seems you both have a flat nose knife of some certain width. I still have to find another way to clean the haunch and have done it a few ways nothing im too happy with. Do remember one guy on a forum that had made a dedicated machine with Pneumatic pistons and linear bearings and the head travelled down to clean the whole affair out in one shot. also was one guy years back that said he had a custom knife for his mortise machine made up to do that, think someone asked and never heard of after that but essentially that would be the same concept as the Hoffman more or less but pulling a handle down instead of stepping on a foot pedal.
What width front knife do you have in those and how well does it work? mine cuts clean but its only a V shaped mitre. Do you drop in in several passes to clean it out then move along if need be to get your width, is the width of the head the same width as say your rails would be if you had mid rails between drawers? the digital readout one of you has looks excellent.
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Warren ... if I recall correctly, the Morso NF accepts a nose cutter and is designed for notching. One quick identification is the oblong adjustment holes on the knives, or of course a flat haunching knife at front.
Not sure if I'm allowed to say this ... I have an extra set of fences and stops ... pm me if interested.
"the mechanic that would perfect his work must first sharpen his tools.” Confucius
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Warren, in mine, I keep a front knife equal to or smaller than the smallest flat left between the two beads on the faceframe. I typically run 2" faceframe if I get to choose, but I have run 1 1/2" on client's or architect's choosing. So it works out that I have 2/ 1/4" beads with 2/ 1/16" quirks, for a total depth from edge of faceframe that = 5/16" per side x 2 = 5/8" total off 2" leaving a flat in the center of 7/8" on 1 1/2" width faceframe stock. I have all the front knives from 1" down to 1/4" for various jobs.
As you know, depending on where you are in the piece, you either nibble your way in from the bead edge to the face of the quirk, then nibble sideways to your length stops.
Or, you start nibbling in from one end to your stop, at full depth.
The digital makes things very accurate, along with some frequently used setups having a dedicated spacer block to quickly set up to.
There is a reason that there is a huge difference in cost between what you have, and what I have- the maker has figured out a almost palatable dollar cost for the "convenience factor" .
I was going to pick up the cheaper version myself and retrofit, but I never have any down time to futz with getting things like this up and running. A job comes in, that has a ton of this type work, and it is all fussy inset, and we are doing this at least several times a year. It doesn't take much of a " back of the napkin" financial decision to realize what needs to be done, and it never seems cost or time beneficial to re-engineer what has already been engineered
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Peter what are you using for the digital stop?
"the mechanic that would perfect his work must first sharpen his tools.” Confucius
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thanks for all the info, this unit I have is limited for sure in how it works but it cost 125.00 and came with an extra set of freshly sharpened knives and id been using a table saw and cross cut sled before that. It was a cheap way to get a taste of a chopper of some sort and have to say im impressed with how clean they cut
Peter had thought about your point and from logic the front if possible would be your smallest cross rail or cross style size. There are some fine dimensions you are playing with there, ive got tennons on the rails as well. Ill check my dimensions on all that, I guess I need a set up like that. Im still staying on mortise and tennon on the face frames and my doors. Its the old way I know and im pig headed at times, its slow but it was what I was taught, it has some advantages as well mostly its just peace of mind for me. I saw Joe has a router bit for cleaning stuff out, im not really set up for that no shapers that take a bit and router table stuff never got into it and dont have a good impression of it even though it works its almost like I dont want to hear the noise. wish that guy years ago would surface to see what kind of cutter he made for the mortise machine to clean out the haunch that seems logical to me. I should try a 1" wide mortise chiselwith no drill shank in it. Dont think it would be that good though.
You guys are awesome with the posts of your machinery and improvements and set ups, thanks to all of you for taking the time and sharing that, you are all very inspiring. thanks on the details on the notcher and how you use it. Ill try and get a photo of mine later, it will look like Flintstones and you will be happy you put out the coin.
Last edited by Warren Lake; 12-13-2016 at 11:44 AM.
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I am using the Proscale digital stops and fences.
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Warren, I do all true mortise and tenon as well on doors , faceframes, and finished end panels. You can do all types with these units, with a little thinking out of your processes beforehand.
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understand and it would even reduce the tennon width at the same time. Id have to check my dimensions and have to be thinking how I want to clear them now till I get a machine or some other way im happier with , in the past have used a router mounted in a shaper table and used a 1/4 bit, it had whip in it, 1/2 " would have been better, used table saw in different ways as well.
its pretty ancient but im still impressed with how well it works, I didnt even put the fresh knives in, I think I did hone the knives in it, cuts really clean, quietest machine in the shop
with no stops is mickey mouse but I just do a measure sample and then put a stop block there on either side.
Peter thanks for your dimensions ill take a look at mine tomorrow have sample pieces from the last piece or two. iF you are doing mortise and tennon on face frames, doors etc doors drawer fronts etc are you using a cope cutter set to make a proper tennon as well. not the beaded face frame but the others or doing mitered profile? I just miter them all im doing it for the face frames anyway, easy enough to carry that thinking through.
Morso was the name on this one guess Hoffman bought the company. no laughing now
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Last edited by Warren Lake; 12-14-2016 at 2:12 AM.
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Warren, it depends on door profile style. I have some profiles that run cope and tenon on the shaper, others I just do on one of my single end tenoners. I only miter the profile on beaded, everything else is coped- by machine, or by hand if only one or two.
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Peter..
I've pretty much finished my planer shopping and wanted to touch base.. I wanted a helical head. Martin offers the Xplane.. SCM offers the Xilent ? and Felder offers the Silent power. IMO .. they are all helical cutters. However.. if you get the Martin Xplane, they will increase the Cutter-head speed to 6000 rpm. Does it matter ? I dunno ..
In the end, I decided to go with Martin. If there is a problem, they are quite good to deal with .. I've had a few issues with my Sliding Table saw, but I've also come to expect issues with new machines.. I don't think I've ever bought a new machine and not needed service in the first 3 months..
I spec'd 10hp .. with a helical cutterhead, Variable feed speed, two rubber out-feed rollers, and automatic table lubrication. I didn't spec table rollers .. which I've always had, but I think it will be fine. I really like the idea of automatic table lubrication.. instead of forgetting to wax the beds. Lazy.. but .. well yeah..
My second choice was the SCM Invincible, I really think it would be an outstanding machine too..
In the end, I considered resale value .. I don't plan to sell, but if you list a good, clean used Martin machine for sale in our area, well .. its like selling Festool used.
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Peter for the doors you cope are they true mortise and tennon that is you have the cope giving you some length or adjustable length and thickness of the tennon. Have you had any experience with the schmidt discs with Corrugated. Ive asked around up here and cant find anyone using them love to see how well they work, think there are about three sizes around 9" know there is newer insert tooling giving some length of tennon just havent had time to look at all this stuff.
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