Ray Fine Configuration feedback and Canadian Customs Broker

[John Lifer]

Daniel, If you don't tell Blanca Color, you get a baby blue/ivory in the 1390 :-) It looks ok, but would have preferred the red/ivory myself.
And yes, even if you don't think you will use the extra belts for a while, if one breaks, it shuts you down. Table belt and the top belts were only $80 cheap insurance.
The rotary, (she offers three types, the Chuck, the hot dog roller and a wheel roller, (I got the wheel roller similar to an Epilog type but cheaper)) are only $200 and well worth getting even if you don't think you'll use one.
I do use the 63mm lens more than the 40mm lens. But that's just me. I'd get at least those two. Cheaper now, there is no extra shipping costs.

My Shipping container was 58" x 48" x 46" high including the 4" in height of the metal base used in place of pallet. And it has shipping weight of 1100 pounds.
I have a 400 ft drive, and the trucker couldn't back into my drive as it has sharp turn at street. And he was pulling a 47' trailer. Make sure you tell shipping broker to deliver in local truck if your location is tight.
The driver didn't really want to, but I got him to roll the pallet down to my garage. used a small three wheel pallet jack. I then lifted and placed on four - four wheel furniture movers from Harbor Freight. Best thing since sliced bread for moving stuff.
On cement, I could push the box my hand with little effort. I then moved across about 150 feet of grass/dirt with my small tractor. Pushing mainly. Very hard ground at that time. Had difficulty the last 40 feet as was uneven and wet area. But got it moved. I did go and get three sheets of 3/8" cheap ply. You need 3/4" ply to successfully roll across. Both the small wheels of the furniture movers and for sure the 4 large wheels of the machine itself went right through the thin stuff. If I had only the distance you have, that's what I'd do. Three sheets, spans 12' side to side. Easy rolling with furniture movers. Or remove from the crate and roll on it's own wheels. either way!

The two parts of the 1390 are attached with 6ft (barely, more like 65") plastic cable housing. There is enough room to pick up top, move in through doorway and then turn and move the base through also. Both sections are about the same weight as I said earlier.
If you want some pictures of my machine, crate, and in pieces, I can send them to you, just PM me your email.
Keep asking questions, that's what we're here for!
John

[Daniel Norman]

Hi Bill, Thanks for the feedback. My CNC is 4’x8’ and while most of what I do does not take advantage of the size but it make some this possible that I could not do otherwise. From the feedback I am hearing it sounds like I will include:, Multiple lenses and the corresponding nose cones, Spare Mirrors, spare belts. I think I will hold of on power suply and motors.

[Daniel Norman]

Thank you to everyone for the responses. Blanca sent me the name of their shipping agent in Vancouver and I have reached out to them to confirm that there are no surprise costs and to receive a quote on delivery to my address. My current thinking is to add lenses with nozzles, spare mirrors, spare belts and any colour but blue. I am still nervous about ordering from overseas but the feedback here has made me more comfortable. I am not the first to do the.

[Erik Goetheer]

Bill...I think Erik was just referring to having ordered a spare power supply, not a spare tube.

Indeed.

[Daniel Norman]

Well China is back from the holiday and I am trying to work out the final details:
I have decides on the RF-1390
I am going to order 3 lenses and nozzles.
I am going to order spare belts
I am going to order a Rotary Attachment.
My outstanding questions remain:
100w Vs 130w My instinct is for MORE POWER but I understand that over 100w the engraving is compromised. Thoughts?
What Rotary Attachment to buy? I will search the forum some more but I do not know the advantages and disadvantages of each? I am leaning to the "Epiloge" style with two sets of wheels with adjustable hight. Looks like the greatest flexibility but I am not sure? I think I would like to do glassware and turned wood items like rolling pins or jewelry.
Canadian Duties? I learned I will pay %5 GST but I do not know what the Duty is?

Thank everyone for their responses. I would never feel comfortable with an offshore purchase without the information I have received from members of this forum.

Cheers,
Dan

I have been following the forum and based on the information here I requested a quote from Ray Fine. I would appreciate any feedback regarding the import process and and machine configuration.
I have not decided on the final size yet, I like the ability to handle a 4' sheet.
I am unsure of a 100w or a 130w tube? I anticipate working primarily with wood and would like to be able to both engrave and cut.
I have asked if the power supply is capable of running a 130w tube in case I want to upgrade in the future.
I have asked about additional lenses and nozzles as I think it would be easiest to order them at the same time as the machine.
I do not know what additional costs to anticipate when the machine is landed in Vancouver.
I appreciate any feedback.
Dan


1.RF-1390-CO2-100W
2.RF-9060-CO2-100W

Machine mainly configuration as following:
EFR ZS-1450 100w laser tube with 10000 hours life time;
RD Controller with RDworks software;
D20mm/FCL63.5MM lens;
Auto Focus;
a powered Motorized in height adjustable working table +steel honeycomb table+aluminum knife table;
CW5200 water chiller;
red-dot pointer;
pass through doors;
a Ammeter ;
550W Centrifugal exhaust fan;
Air compressor

[David Somers]

Dan,

As a rule, 80watt is typically the sweet point between cutting and engraving. If you want to engrave but your prime work is cutting go to 100, maybe even 120 but expect less control over your engraving. The main issue being that you can't tone down the power enough on the higher wattage tubes to engrave on delicate materials that don't take much to get a good engraving. If you want to cut but your main focus is engraving stay with the 80. Blanca can confirm this for you. I would get a spare lens for each focal length you have coming. I would also add a spare mirror set to your order. Don't bother ordering a spare CO2 tube.

As for the rotary. For my needs I am better served with a chuck style rotary. You sound like the roller style might have more application. They are not expensive though, and ordering 1 of each will have no impact on your shipping costs, and minimal effect on your importing fees. So if you have doubts, perhaps one of each?

Gotta run.....hope that helps!! And hope you love the machine!!! Say hey to Blanca for me!

Dave



I am not sure I would fuss with auto focus at all. I haven't heard from anyone who thought much of it after using it. The process of focusing a laser is simple with a spacer. They will provide you with a spacer for the 2" lens you are getting. If you have other focal length lenses you will need to make your own spacer. Do a search in the forum on something called a ramp test. It will show you how to determine the focal point distance beneath your lens cone so you can cut your own spacer.

I am in Seattle so I am afraid I can't speak for Canadian Customs fees and duties. Some of our folks north of the border will need to speak up to help you. A number in Canada have recently bought Ray Fine machines.

[John Lifer]

I didn't go back to my prior posts, I might have mentioned this before, but my 80w identical machine otherwise struggles to engrave at low power.
I've been working on trying to make an engraved photo on canvas. Just cutting thru the paint on top. So most settings should be 2-300mm/s and 10-20% power. 400mm/s doesn't work. Really would love to run at 8-10%, but laser just doesn't fire at below 10%, 11-12% is my minimum consistently firing.

If you are wanting to lightly engrave anything, 100w would be total max. 130w would probably not get down anywhere low enough. It really isn't 100% linear, but 10% of 80w should be about 8w. 10% of 130w is 13w over 50% more power. A lot of difference. Now if you are mainly cutting thick stuff, get the 130W.

I guess what I'm saying is more isn't always better with these lasers. You CAN run most things slower and it will cut the thicker items. But there is a lower threshold that you just can't get to with a higher power laser. YOU have to determine that balance. It might be you need two lasers! And I'm not kidding!

[David Somers]

Daniel,

To carry John Lifer's thought further, you can ask Blanca about a 2 tube laser. Sometimes people do this with 2 identical tubes to speed work. Sometimes they have 2 different wattage tubes that each might focus more on one important aspect of your work. Fast cutting versus fine engraving. Compare this against the cost of 2 separate lasers. Either approach might give you a few more options to ponder.

Also....another bit of advice for you once you get any Chinese laser in.
When you get it, definitely make sure it is functioning so you can get any warrantee issues dealt with. Once you know it is working take some time to go over the machine carefully. Open everything, look and poke and ask questions of Blanca when you don't understand. She is good about helping. Just be patient with the day and time and holiday differences, as you already know.

Then, go over and really do a careful alignment. Start with the laser tube and work out through each mirror to the lens and be sure all is carefully aligned. There are documents here that can help you. Or there are videos on the web you can refer to.

Once that is done, work on the table. Remove the honeycomb. Put your 2" lens tube in once corner of the laser directly over the first aluminum slat. Adjust your focus using the focusing spacer so it is focused on the top of that slat. Then don't change the focus of the tube again. Move the lens tube to the next slat and use the spacer to see if it is in focus on that slat. If not, use the adjustment screw beneath the slat to bring it into focus. Do this for each slat, front and back. Then repeat this to be sure you are on the money. You are insuring your working surface is parallel to the plane of your gantry and you want it to be on the money. Once you are done, put the honeycomb back in place and check each corner with the spacer to be sure it is on the same plane as the gantry. It should be, but just be safe and check. If it isn't, go back and recheck your slats. If they are all OK look at the honeycomb and see if there is an issue with it. If yes, do what is needed to correct it. Spacers? Corrected a warp?, etc. It should be OK though. Check to be sure though.

Lastly, for me, with a woodworking background, I am a bit anal (OK....obsessive compulsive?? he he ho ho ha ha!) about things being well aligned and anything I do being easily replicated at a later time. With that in mind I first fixed my honeycomb in place so it cant wander around as it is raised and lowered, and I can replace it exactly where it came from when I remove it for cleaning or to use the slat table. I put it where I wanted it, used some tape and silly putty to hold it there temporarily, and then drilled through the honeycomb frame into the metal table of the slate table. Then I tapped the holes in the slate table frame so I could drop a bolt through the hole in the honeycomb, and then screw it down into the slate table frame. Once I had that done and my honeycomb was locked down and replaceable where it came from when removed, I used some in expensive SS rulers to create guide bars on the edges of the honeycomb that I used. Basically one side, and the back edge. First I put masking tape down where I wanted the edge of the guide to be and then ran the laser over that lightly to mark where the edge should be. It is obviously aligned with the gantry axis. Then I used double side tape to place the ruler with its working edge running along that mark. Once that was down I drilled through it at the ends and screwed it in place so it cant wander over time if the tape failed, which it would eventually. I did the same thing with the other edge I wanted a guide bar on. My anal retentive nature now being assuaged I now headed in and enjoyed a nice whiskey, neat. This works really well for me. Enough for me that a few times I have cut a bunch of things from some ply and mistakenly removed the ply before checking that I had actually cut all the way through on all pieces. When I found I hadn't I was able to put the ply back in place exactly where it came from, rerun the job and finish the cuts.

Hope that helps!

Dave

[Doug Fisher]

>>I am leaning to the "Epiloge" style with two sets of wheels with adjustable hight.<<

I am just learning rotary, so take my opinion for what it is worth. Each style has its pluses and minuses, but if I were doing it over again I would first buy the type you are considering with the rubber trimmed wheels (not the long bare metal "hot dog roller" type) and then buy the chuck type later if I really had enough need for it. If you are going to buy a chuck type, the style and size of the pointer design that holds/supports the end opposite of the chuck is really important. The interchangeable system of various sized rubber cones and grips found on the more costly laser system really adds versatility.

[Daniel Norman]

Hi Dave, I want to be sure I understand. I think it was at your recommendation I have included nozzles for each lens and you are suggesting I order 2 lenses and one nozzle for each focal length. This seems logical and cheep insurance.
I think you are correct about ordering two rotary attachments for $200.00 I will have options.
Auto focus was included in my original quote. I had not asked for it and I will have to check how much it adds to the price.
Thanks again, Dan

Dan,

I would get a spare lens for each focal length you have coming. I would also add a spare mirror set to your order. Don't bother ordering a spare CO2 tube.

As for the rotary. For my needs I am better served with a chuck style rotary. You sound like the roller style might have more application. They are not expensive though, and ordering 1 of each will have no impact on your shipping costs, and minimal effect on your importing fees. So if you have doubts, perhaps one of each?

Gotta run.....hope that helps!! And hope you love the machine!!! Say hey to Blanca for me!

I am not sure I would fuss with auto focus at all. I haven't heard from anyone who thought much of it after using it

[Daniel Norman]

Hi John, I think laser power has been the hardest decision after deciding to import myself. I have the space so the bigger footprint was a easy choice. When I bought my CNC (shopBot) I was not sure how I would use it I just saw the potential. I know that the Laser will provide me great flexibility but what I will do most remains to be seen. I want the flexibility to both cut and engrave? I wonder if the 100w power supply is to much for the 80w tube if I desire to change later? I will email Blanca.
Thanks again,
Dan

I didn't go back to my prior posts, I might have mentioned this before, but my 80w identical machine otherwise struggles to engrave at low power.
I've been working on trying to make an engraved photo on canvas. Just cutting thru the paint on top. So most settings should be 2-300mm/s and 10-20% power. 400mm/s doesn't work. Really would love to run at 8-10%, but laser just doesn't fire at below 10%, 11-12% is my minimum consistently firing.

If you are wanting to lightly engrave anything, 100w would be total max. 130w would probably not get down anywhere low enough. It really isn't 100% linear, but 10% of 80w should be about 8w. 10% of 130w is 13w over 50% more power. A lot of difference. Now if you are mainly cutting thick stuff, get the 130W.

I guess what I'm saying is more isn't always better with these lasers. You CAN run most things slower and it will cut the thicker items. But there is a lower threshold that you just can't get to with a higher power laser. YOU have to determine that balance. It might be you need two lasers! And I'm not kidding!

[Daniel Norman]

Hi Dave you raised several interesting points:
Two Tubes? Interesting I will have to consider this. I did not realize it was an option.
Warranty, It sounds like you have some experience. I have had trouble with Canadian Companies and warranty I assumed I would be on my own when dealing with China.
Set up is another great fear, not knowing what type of documentation will come.
I also come from a wood working and steel fabrication background so jigs are just part of how I work. The not needing to clamp as securely will take some getting use to.
Thanks again, Dan

Daniel,

To carry John Lifer's thought further, you can ask Blanca about a 2 tube laser. Sometimes people do this with 2 identical tubes to speed work. Sometimes they have 2 different wattage tubes that each might focus more on one important aspect of your work. Fast cutting versus fine engraving. Compare this against the cost of 2 separate lasers. Either approach might give you a few more options to ponder.

Also....another bit of advice for you once you get any Chinese laser in.
When you get it, definitely make sure it is functioning so you can get any warrantee issues dealt with. Once you know it is working take some time to go over the machine carefully. Open everything, look and poke and ask questions of Blanca when you don't understand. She is good about helping. Just be patient with the day and time and holiday differences, as you already know.

Then, go over and really do a careful alignment. Start with the laser tube and work out through each mirror to the lens and be sure all is carefully aligned. There are documents here that can help you. Or there are videos on the web you can refer to.

Once that is done, work on the table. Remove the honeycomb. Put your 2" lens tube in once corner of the laser directly over the first aluminum slat. Adjust your focus using the focusing spacer so it is focused on the top of that slat. Then don't change the focus of the tube again. Move the lens tube to the next slat and use the spacer to see if it is in focus on that slat. If not, use the adjustment screw beneath the slat to bring it into focus. Do this for each slat, front and back. Then repeat this to be sure you are on the money. You are insuring your working surface is parallel to the plane of your gantry and you want it to be on the money. Once you are done, put the honeycomb back in place and check each corner with the spacer to be sure it is on the same plane as the gantry. It should be, but just be safe and check. If it isn't, go back and recheck your slats. If they are all OK look at the honeycomb and see if there is an issue with it. If yes, do what is needed to correct it. Spacers? Corrected a warp?, etc. It should be OK though. Check to be sure though.

Lastly, for me, with a woodworking background, I am a bit anal (OK....obsessive compulsive?? he he ho ho ha ha!) about things being well aligned and anything I do being easily replicated at a later time. With that in mind I first fixed my honeycomb in place so it cant wander around as it is raised and lowered, and I can replace it exactly where it came from when I remove it for cleaning or to use the slat table. I put it where I wanted it, used some tape and silly putty to hold it there temporarily, and then drilled through the honeycomb frame into the metal table of the slate table. Then I tapped the holes in the slate table frame so I could drop a bolt through the hole in the honeycomb, and then screw it down into the slate table frame. Once I had that done and my honeycomb was locked down and replaceable where it came from when removed, I used some in expensive SS rulers to create guide bars on the edges of the honeycomb that I used. Basically one side, and the back edge. First I put masking tape down where I wanted the edge of the guide to be and then ran the laser over that lightly to mark where the edge should be. It is obviously aligned with the gantry axis. Then I used double side tape to place the ruler with its working edge running along that mark. Once that was down I drilled through it at the ends and screwed it in place so it cant wander over time if the tape failed, which it would eventually. I did the same thing with the other edge I wanted a guide bar on. My anal retentive nature now being assuaged I now headed in and enjoyed a nice whiskey, neat. This works really well for me. Enough for me that a few times I have cut a bunch of things from some ply and mistakenly removed the ply before checking that I had actually cut all the way through on all pieces. When I found I hadn't I was able to put the ply back in place exactly where it came from, rerun the job and finish the cuts.

Hope that helps!

Dave

[Daniel Norman]

Hi Doug, Thanks for the thoughts. I think I am going to take Davids advice and buy two at the beginning when I am already paying shipping. I will have to investigate the options with the chucks
Dan

>>I am leaning to the "Epiloge" style with two sets of wheels with adjustable hight.<<

I am just learning rotary, so take my opinion for what it is worth. Each style has its pluses and minuses, but if I were doing it over again I would first buy the type you are considering with the rubber trimmed wheels (not the long bare metal "hot dog roller" type) and then buy the chuck type later if I really had enough need for it. If you are going to buy a chuck type, the style and size of the pointer design that holds/supports the end opposite of the chuck is really important. The interchangeable system of various sized rubber cones and grips found on the more costly laser system really adds versatility.

[John Lifer]

I'm SO sorry, that I didn't mention the Rotary, If you go this route, it works fine. But I had Mucho Issue with figuring out the settings.
I tried finding info on the web, not a lot of folks use or at least have posted about this type (or rotaries for that matter).
I found BOSS uses a similar rotary. (and their own version of RDWORKS software)
And both a youtube video on setting it up and their manual states to put in a number in the circle pulse input which varied depending on the model of their rotary.
And to leave the diameter alone.
RDworks manual says take pulse of Y axis and multiply by ratio of the pulleys. Which is right? (neither)
Well, I figured out the circle pulse and the ratio and entered calculated # and then would put in the diameter of the item. Wrong! was actually close, but not right.
It is some sort of ratio between the circle pulse ratio and diameter. And I've engraved a 4" diameter item and a 1" diameter item and it goes 360 degrees around....
With a ratio of 113. Don't understand it, but it works..... I've got mine set up with 113 as circle pulse and 1 as diameter. Oh well.

I would like a rotary with the chuck, but I'll get one of those later. For most items this thing works well.

[David Somers]

Hey Daniel!

I found Blanca and Ray Fine were easy to work with for warranty and general initial questions. My laser was fine, but I did have an issue with the CNC and they stuck with it until it was resolved. Just keep in mind the repair person from Liaocheng is NOT likely to show up at your door. Stuff is mostly dealt with by email or skype. I chose to work by email because I was not in a rush. At least with Ray Fine and Blanca you are not on your own. Just dealing with folks who are a longgggggg way away and for whom English is definitely a second language. Patience and understanding is key on both your parts.