Spalted Liquid Amber

[John K Jordan]

...It took about 9 months for it spalt.Attachment 352056

If that is typical sweet gum spalting I can believe the little piece I turned could be gum. (BTW, I learned something from researching this: several of the references say that the sap wood of Liquidambar styraciflua is often referred to as sweet gum and the heartwood is called red gum.)

Do you have a reliable procedure for spalting on purpose? I've been doing some "recently" by the method of laying the log on the ground, kicking leaves and dirt over it, and pouring on some water when the weather was really dry (such as around here most of the last year). I've tried just setting one end of a short round directly on the dirt but it leaves the other end unspalted. Maybe turn it over every few months? This past year I've added spalted maple, dogwood, and holly to my drying racks.

If you spalt wood on purpose how do you have a secret way to know when it is "ready"? Do you use the guess, cut, and "rats, not yet" method that I use?

The holly spalted with broad areas and streaks of indistinct discoloration instead of the fine, high-contrast black lines I see in maple, birch, and dogwood. The spalted hackberry I have also has black lines but less distinct. If what you show is typical, sweet gum is different from anything else I've seen. Feel free to ship a pallet of this to me, it won't bother me at all. :-)

JKJ

[Bob Bouis]

What I'd like to know is how to keep the sapwood white. When you rough turn it the colors and contrast are spectacular. When it dries the heartwood is more muted and the sapwood takes on a gray cast.

But googling pictures of sweetgum turnings I do see some where they managed to keep the sapwood white. Blow it out with compressed air? Treat it with fungicide? Finish turn it green? I don't know, but I'm going to try all those next time I get a good sweetgum log.

It seems unfair to me how other people manage to get spalted wood that hasn't turned gray or blue and been turned to swiss cheese by bugs.

[CHARLES D Richards]

John,
I don't have a fool proof method but with the species i know will spalt from my personal experience here's what I do:

Logs are kept outside in the open end up
top end has some dirt thrown on it and of course the other end is already on the dirt
check the log in 6 months by cutting 1/2 inch off the end to have a look see
if no spalting yet check monthly

From experience the only time I vary from this is with river birch. At least in my area (south Georgia) it will spalt in about 4 months. Everything else seems to take 6-9 months. I keep a number of logs that routinely spalt around the place and check regularly depending on where they are in the process above. Since I sell my pieces and most folks seem to gravitate to spalted bowls so I try to keep those pieces coming along all the time.

Here is a spalted river birch I finished turning this morning (no finish yet) This is a 16" bowl and beautiful but certainly a different spalting than sweet gum. This piece was rough turned after 4 months since it had spalted, put in a dishwasher ( I put my big bowls in old dishwashers for drying- I have 4 of them :-)). Most bowls seems to dry in 8-12 weeks in the dishwasher.


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Anyway, this may be more than you want to know but it works for me,

Dave

[John K Jordan]

...
Logs are kept outside in the open end up
top end has some dirt thrown on it and of course the other end is already on the dirt
check the log in 6 months by cutting 1/2 inch off the end to have a look see
if no spalting yet check monthly
...

Anyway, this may be more than you want to know but it works for me

Ha! Thank you, Dave, that is EXACTLY the kind of info I was hoping for! In fact I want more. Here's a question:

When you say you cut off 1/2" to check, I'm assuming you mean cut 1/2" off the top, not the side in the dirt, right? Would that be to see if the fungus has reached the top from the ground, or has does it also grow down from the top?

Do you have a favorite length of log section for the vertical technique?

I cut one up yesterday (sugar maple, about 16" long) that had been sitting vertically on in the weather since summer. Nicely spalted but mostly on one side. Another 24" piece from the same log had great spalting but not all the way up. I've had some great spalting from logs lying flat on the ground but the contact side is usually degraded. Now I want to plant a spalting garden (or wood cemetary?) with a variety of species. Since my two remaining brain cells are weakening I probably need to label each with the starting date and results of each check.

Please share any other spalting tips! For example, can you share your secret short list of favorite species for spalting?

I don't often try to sell things but you are right, almost everyone likes spalted pieces, tops, boxes, whatever. Anything I make with spalted wood seems to be picked or bought first, even if it has only minor spalting. (The one at the top of the second photo sold for $200 - I was surprised the lady picked that one out of the batch!)

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JKJ



JKJ

[John K Jordan]

...
It seems unfair to me how other people manage to get spalted wood that hasn't turned gray or blue and been turned to swiss cheese by bugs.

Our mother told us not to expect life to be fair or we would be frustrated. I think success with spalting is like success with business: Location. And timing. And perseverance. And dumb luck.

I cut most of my spalted wood into blanks for spindles, boxes, etc. My biggest block is about 7x7x10". This is some of my turning stock that would fit on the sander, some not yet dry.

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Keeping wood white: Some people say cool temperature important. Some say kiln dry as soon as possible, not much use with spalting. Regardless of what I do some things like Holly get a green or grey stain. Maybe the time of year it's cut has some effect.

[CHARLES D Richards]

ok John, I can tell you what I know pretty quick 'cause it's not much. I forgot to mention that I don't always put dirt on the top of the log, I'm really not sure it makes any difference. Obviously the dirt is problematic with cutting part of the end off the log to check for spalting since my chain saws don't like dirt.

I cut most of my logs 4-6 inches longer than the diameter, so if the log is 17 inches in diameter I cut it no shorter than 21-24 inches long. For me it doesn't make any difference how long the log piece is just want to be able to handle it.

So, when I cut a piece off the end, as you mentioned, I just flip the log over on its side and cut off 1/2 inch or so. Either end for the cut, not big deal. If it's not ready it gets flipped back up on its end for another month. Like you, I cut up left over pieces of bowl blanks and other spalted pieces for smaller projects.

The wood I work with in my area that spalts pretty easily is:

river birch
pecan
hickory
maple
magnolia
bay
oak
poplar( for me it takes a little longer than 6 months- more like 12 months)- love to see mushrooms growing on any log of mine cause 90% of the time its spalted
bradford pear- not much character change for me.
dogwood- I know you like this wood after reading some of your posts
camphor- not that dramatic

I forgot to mention that I have tried covering the wood with a tarp and putting the logs on a pallet instead of the ground. At least at this point I don't think any of that helps. Not a scientific experiment but just an observation. I have read that the fungus in everywhere so if the wood has a potential to spalt I guess it will do it not matter how I help.

I'm just trying to grow a perpetual spalt garden 'cause I like the way it looks..... never tasted it mind you.

here is a spalted poplar bowl that was one of the prettiest I have seen with the golds, pinks, greens, blacks. Almost wish I had kept that bowl. Let me know if you need anything else.

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[John K Jordan]

ok John, I can tell you what I know pretty quick 'cause it's not much...

It's a goldmine, thanks. The meat from your messages is going into a file here.

You are good at bowls! Some people look down on y. poplar but I like it - dries quickly, stable, fine grain. And I probably have at least 8 on the property here close to or over 3' in diameter. Much is bland, of course, but sometimes there are beautiful colors in the heartwood.

I've had some accidental luck with spalting yellow poplar here, thin, crisp black lines on a light background that didn't stain. And some with oak. I've got a huge amount of white oak and hickory down now which I might try with your techniques. Once I did discover some "unfarmed" spalting in some oak burl from what I call a buttress around the base of the tree. I'd like to get some more spalted burl but I have a real hard time with the idea of putting burls in the dirt to rot. !!

You might be the perfect person to develop some scientific methods (in your spare time!) and develop a guaranteed method with controlled temperature, humidity, fungi culture, magic incantation...

I often have some of the other species you listed too and a bunch of others. I don't cut trees on my property for wood but if they come down or people give me logs I'll try them all. I think I'll level a spot in the woods near the shop where I get the little truck in close and can stand up log sections in rows. I'll try to keep good notes this time. To be continued... :-)

Years ago there was a lot of discussion on another forum about this and people had all kinds of recipes including mulching with a poultice of leaf mold, dirt, manure, beer, and urine. From my experience just keeping it warm and wet worked as well as anything so I think what you said about the spores makes sense.

Just for fun, here are a couple of "Profile" lidded mugs I made for my son and wife, I think hackberry and maple.

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JKJ

[CHARLES D Richards]

John, I had a reply to you a couple of hours ago but something happened and it did not show up, so I'll try again.

If you have a log standing end up, after 6 months I roll it over on its side and cut the top end off ( 1/2 to 1") just to visualize the wood. I really don't know if putting dirt on top of the log helps or not Honestly, I have had it spalt either way. I have also tried a tarp over logs sitting on a pallet and can't see a lot of difference. Sometimes I do stack end on pieces on top of each other so help spalting thinking that the moisture coming out of the endgrain staws helps the piece on the bottom spalt quicker. Not sure about that either. From what I've read the fungus is everywhere so the key for me is to get it spalt with as little punky wood as possible. It seems the more you would cover up the wood with leaves, etc the easier it would be to let it get to far in the process before you realized it.

I have some magnolia logs outside the shop end up sitting on a plastic pallet and they spalted in about 6 months. Most of the time I do use Anchorseal on the ends before stacking end up and it doesn't seem to matter with the outcome.

I guess each geographical area could be different but the method I indicated in the other post seems to work consistently for me and maybe the less we do the better condition the wood will be in after 6 months. It seems that the important part is having a system to check it after 6 months and the every couple of months so you can catch it at the right time.

Your question about the short list is not different than anyone else. I will list the ones I most often use but of course many other could be on the list.

river birch
maple
magnolia
bay
hickory
sweet gum
black gum
poplar

These are my favorites but pecan, dogwood, bradford pear and others could be on the list.

My goal is to continually tend my spalt garden so there is always a nice harvest

here is a couple of spalted poplar bowls and a typical spalting in magnolia
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cheers,
Dave

[John K Jordan]

John, I had a reply to you a couple of hours ago but something happened and it did not show up, so I'll try again.

Dave, you did post the other message - I read and already copied much of it into my Spalting file. (You add a few more tidbits in this message!)

Maybe the message was pushed to a second page or something? I see it there now, followed by a reply of mine where I post a picture of some little profile turnings.

The second bowl you show in this message really has some unusual color and figure. And the vase looks huge! If it's as big as it looks then I've never seen spalted wood that large. Oh, with a second look I see it's sitting on a table - at first I thought it was on the floor. Is it about 16" high or so?

Out walking back from the horse pasture today I saw a dogwood log on the ground I forgot about, there about a year. Now I want to grab the chainsaw and see if it is too far gone yet!

JKJ

[CHARLES D Richards]

Sorry, John, I just realized why my posts don't show up as I was not replying to the thread but only to you. Pardon my confusion.

[Bob Bouis]

I'm not sure about spalting, but I know for sure that sapstain fungus enters most readily through cut end grain. So you might get some advantage by not anchor sealing the ends of the logs, at least not right away.

[Bob Bouis]

This thread motivated me to go grab some more sweet gum. There were six trees cut, three had no heartwood to speak of (6" heartwood in a 20-24" log). The others were smaller but had a bit better figure. Won't need to wait for these to spalt.

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BTW if anybody's in Jackson, MS, and wants some wood. Please help me! I am drowning in it.

[John K Jordan]

BTW if anybody's in Jackson, MS, and wants some wood. Please help me! I am drowning in it.

Do you process and dry turning blanks too?

Since most green wood left in rounds will go "bad" (splits) fairly quickly, when I am drowning in wood I try to take time to process some of it into turning blanks for everything from thin spindles to boxes to bowl blanks. I let these dry on wire shelves and properly sealed most of them survive. Much of the wood I'm turning now I processed from 2002 to 2010 and is now dry - walnut, cherry, holly, persimmon, sycamore, c.chestnut, dogwood, bradford pear, ERC, oak, hickory, and more.

A couple of shelves from one of my drying racks. I like to write the name of the wood and the date on each piece.

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When I run the WoodMizer behind the barn I also cut slabs and thick planks (up to 16/4) and air dry these. Makes great turning stock. I cut up some 2" persimmon just a few minutes ago from a plank I put up to dry in 2006.

This provides more wood that I can turn in my lifetime and lots to give away. I have a hard time giving away green wood but NEVER when it's dry.

This is from one round of Sassafras.

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I have about 50 ft of that tree left to cut into if I get time, and 4 larger trees and a nice walnut log. Drowning in wood.

JKJ

[Bob Bouis]

Sounds like you might be a wood hoarder. I wonder what that's like!

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And that's not counting the bowls. I counted over a hundred rough outs -- just in cherry! Couldn't just let it go to waste.

My problem is that I live in the 'burbs and even though I have 1300 sq ft of garage space (plus a 400 sq ft attic with real stairs and some outdoor storage), I am loaded down. I have 1500 bd ft of walnut stickered (bought it, didn't cut it myself), plus turning blanks, etc. I have been holding onto it because, supposedly, my father is going to build a new barn any day now, and it's going to go in there eventually. For now it's driving me nuts.

[John K Jordan]

Sounds like you might be a wood hoarder. I wonder what that's like!

I thought for a minute you had pictures of my place. I use the same shelves and tubs - when I moved from my garage down the hill to the new shop I moved most of the wood but right now there are at least 15 tubs still in the back of the garage. The new shop is 28x62 and I already started drawing up plans for an addition for, gasp, more wood.

Fortunately I live on a farm with plenty of room. At the moment, besides tripping over wood in the shop, the wood storage wing is full, and there is wood in the maintenance bays. I have wood stored in 6 other buildings and trailers I use as storage buildings. Already there is enough wood for four lifetimes of turning, yet I buy more exotics at every chance. Trade for wood. People send wood to me from across the country. People I meet see turnings and give me wood their grandfather had. I visit people and they load wood in my truck. Then I start up the sawmill...

The great thing about it is a visitor never goes home empty handed. One friend drove back to the hardwood wood-starved southwest with her station wagon so full of wood slabs the frame was on the axles. However, another friend would not even take any cocobolo - he had just driven across country and pulled wood from the floorboards of the car for me. He would not take one piece of wood or any tools. He just kept saying "Coals to Newcastle, coals to Newcastle."

I'm really trying to do better. I just started a 12-step program for my addiction: Step one, move some wood into the barn loft to make room for some more in the shop. Step two, visit Pete at Big Monk next weekend at the TAW...

JKJ