This is sage advise! As I mentioned, I'm on "shop v4.1" at this point, starting from v1.0 in about 1996-7 or so.Originally Posted by Chris Hachet
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This is sage advise! As I mentioned, I'm on "shop v4.1" at this point, starting from v1.0 in about 1996-7 or so.
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The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...
[OP]
Member
I have no doubt I will modify several times as my skills and interest change, I just want a starting point I can afford and fit into the Garage for now.
Member
I started my own shop about 4 years ago, and built it almost entirely by Craigslist, pawn shops, and estate sales. One of the advantages of used (other than getting good machines for prices that enabled me to build a shop much quicker than had I relied only on new equipment) was that it forced me to learn how the machines operated. Used equipment requires some initial tuning, and in doing that, I learned a lot about the machines and then how to adjust them or repair them when needed. I ended up a lot more knowledgeable that way.
I also agree to start with a TS. Then use it to build yourself a good, flat, and solid work bench. There are a lot of good table saws for sale on Craigslist. Be choosy and patient and the right one will come along. Everybody I have dealt with on Craigslist in the tools section have been honest and kind. Then acquire tools out from there as you need. Do you really air compressor today? I didn't get that until I redid our stair case and installed new custom-made trim (thank you local pawn shop). You may have different needs that justify earlier acquisition.
There are a lot of good articles on ranking tools 1-10 for starting a shop. None of these are "right." But read a few of them and see what rationale they offer for why such and such a tool is an essential starter tool and why others are not. Then think about your own needs and develop a strategy from there. I even saw one video when I first started that argued---somewhat convincingly---that all you really need is a jig saw. And don't overlook the importance of some good hand and smaller power tools. I went a long time without decent wrenches, drill bits, chisels, impact driver, squares for marking, and clamps, clamps, clamps, and more clamps. Some small investments made a huge difference in the ease of various tasks.
The last thing that I would advise is to be patient and slowly build your shop to meet the projects that you are doing. Get to know each tool that you add to shop and have fun.
Contributor
If you want to go towards the craft end of woodworking, a scroll saw is a very good way to get started. Get that, bang up some type of work bench out of HD/Lowes construction lumber and get started. Let it all develop as it comes along. Best of luck.
David
Member
My 2 cents and a first post here as well.
First off I would not recommend maxing out any type of CC. Pay it off in 2 years... yeah, not really. Why? Because life happens and now you just took away a safety net and lost wiggle room and that 2 years becomes 3, becomes 4, becomes 5, add another CC , piles on, etc etc etc...
If possible, try and sell some stuff you've accumulated to help fund your wood working tool purchases. You'd be surprised what people will buy. Between, eBay, facebook etc you can make some extra cash selling all kinds of little things. If you are set on putting something on credit, don't max anything out and keep it to 1 item that you can start using right away.
With that said, you stated that you have a 10" DeWalt TS? My suggestion is that you build a table saw bench/table to put that table saw in. It'll make it much more user friendly and give you some experience in building something that requires a fair degree of precision.
Don't over think the required tools for this. A corded drill of any major brand will suffice. A drill bit set, always pre-drill holes for your screws. Don't split your wood. I am just gonna assume you don't have much experience in building stuff, no offense. Stay away from standard and Phillips head screws, get star/allen head screws. You will be much less frustrated.
I suggest that you don't buy any kind of pre-built bench. Take the time to research what you think you need, the space you have available and take construction grade lumber and build it. It'll be a great learning experience and give you the satisfaction of creating something start to finish and fit your space. It'll also be much much cheaper than trying to buy something new.
You've mentions a ton of tools but in reality you don't need just about any of it for the stuff you are talking about doing to start with. Buying tools is fun though...
You want to get into pyrography? Do you have any art experience? I do and doing it on wood is much harder than doing it on paper. I suggest you get a cheap little solder iron/wood burning pen and get some scrap and just practice. You want this to be a relaxing venture but you better understand that if you approach this the wrong way it will be anything but relaxing.
If you really want a scroll saw do it and practice on cheap scrap wood.
Do you need a drill press? Sure doesn't sound like it. A corded drill is cheaper and fine for now and more versatile.
Do you need a jointer? Sure doesn't sound like it. Buy S2S or S4S wood. Clean up on a table saw, make a jig to help and get the experience of making the jig.
Do you really need a dust collector? Sure doesn't sound like it. A shop vac and an open garage door will suffice.
Do you need a 30 gal air compressor? Not at all. Like mentioned, a leaf blower and a shop vac will suffice. If you need to blow out fine areas on a piece and need high pressure compressed air, get a small, couple gallon compressor if after a while you realize you really need one.
Why do you need a brad nailer? You haven't mentioned what you will be doing with this? They are useful and fun but for what? You don't need a 30gal for a brad nailer.
Do you need a bandsaw? Are you going to be resawing a bunch of stock? A table, clamp and a jig saw can do most any rough cutting.
Do you need a planer? Right now? Probably not. See the same reasons for the jointer.
A sander? Yeah, that may be more useful than most that other stuff since you want to cut rounds etc.
Router? Yes, might as well get one with a plunger base now. Don't worry about a table right now. You can get away with a cheap 3/4-1hp router with no plunger base and get a feel for it before you buy something bigger for a table.
You have a table saw, make a table for it. If nothing else, make an out feed table for it.
I think a good miter saw is a must personally but that depends again on what you plan on doing.
Build a simple workbench.
Done and thousands of dollars saved.
You've made some comments that come across that you may not understand or be ready to drop a lot of money on this. So don't. Start very small and keep it cheap. You mention just holding off on all of this until you move... then clarify that that is not even for 8 plus years... That is 8 plus years of experience you'd miss out on. Research is good, smart purchases are good, I agree with why you want to buy new. But with what reads like no experience in wood working you should not max any credit cards. You won't just become an expert over night and be making $500 a month on crafts without a ton of work.
Work with what you have. Purchase a single higher priced item that you can begin to learn with now and do not buy anything else until you have paid that off. Remember the price of materials counts too. The time involved in building stuff is always way more than you may think.
Good luck and have fun.
Last edited by Bill Serino; 05-14-2017 at 11:22 AM. Reason: Forgot something
Member
+1 I'm with Bill on that, great first post!
He just counted it down for you. My first saw was a De Walt 10'' contractors with an out feed table/workbench that was 1974 had to leave the saw in Florida at a friends and it is still going strong. Also I try to think of ways not to use a router every day.
Hay but what do I know I'm just another old guy who has been around the block too many times and at this point I try not to go around the same block over and over.
Rick
Member
Of all of my shop equipment (I have a complete cabinet shop) the tool that can produce the most profit on small craft type items is a good scroll saw. Certain scroll saw items are in high demand at craft shows. Compound cut (3D) items are unique and sell quickly. Soft cover books of patterns by Diana Thompson are some of what I am referring to, but there are other books of these patterns too. I can't make enough 3 1/2" high compound cut reindeer to satisfy the demand for them during the Christmas Season. I made 428 of them last year and they take me about 8 minutes to cut each one out. Compound cut Christmas Ornaments made from hardwoods are also in high demand. 2D Puzzles also sell well. A friend makes animal puzzles where, for instance, the shape is of a certain breed of dog with letters cut out within the dog's shape to spell out the type of dog or the owner's first name with each letter being a separate puzzle piece. Another friend prints photographs on photo quality paper and then bonds the photo to pieces of 1/4" Baltic Birch plywood, then cuts them to form puzzles. These can be photographs of anything, scenery, animals, etc. These are frequently made to order from the buyer's photographs.
To get a good scroll saw new you will likely spend $550 and more, but many people buy scroll saws and then loose interest in them quickly. After a few years of dust collection and them always being in the way, they end up on Craigslist at about 1/2 price or less. It's quite easy to buy a known brand and model that hasn't been abused (visible evidence of abuse is easy to see) and only has a few hours of actual use on it. I never buy a scroll saw new. Stick to a brand name saw that sells new for $550 and up, pay $250-350 and you will get a good saw at a great price, but make sure it has the stand with it. Most came with the stand when new. My present saw is a DeWalt 788 Type 1 that I purchased from craigslist for $300 with the light, stand, and a DeWalt bar type stool. All it needed was a little cleaning.
Project materials for much of my scroll sawing comes from my scrap bin, because most scroll saw projects only need very small pieces of wood. I have made some very nice scroll saw projects from clean pallet slats, planned and sanded smooth. I saw the slats close to the side and center uprights using a battery powered sawzall, so there are no nails to deal with in the pieces that I save. The uprights and the nails usually go in the trash. The pieces saved are 1/4 - 1/2" thick, 1-4" wide and about 1' long. They frequently are most any common American hardwoods. like Cherry, Ash, Birch, Oak, Poplar, and Alder have been in many of the pallets that I've cut apart. These pieces are perfect for many scroll saw projects. I made the attached dragon from pallet wood (two pieces joined and glued together) - the seam is horizontal through the clock) - see attachments for the dragon as well as some of the reindeer and ornaments.
Take your time and add tools to your shop as you need them and can afford them. If you can't afford a tool, figure out how to make the tool or jig that will work for you until you can afford a better tool to do that job. Don't spend a lot of money "up front" on tools that you think you will need. For years my router table was just a piece of 3/4 plywood with a hole for the router bit and bolt holes to mount my only fixed base 1 hp router. A 2 X 4 and 2 clamps served as the fence. My workbench was a Work Mate. At the time I was raising 4 kids and working 2 jobs. I had very little time or money for woodworking and I was adding onto my house by myself too. I had a couple of inherited hand saws, a level, a hand drill and a drill index, a 4" pad sander, and an inherited table saw that cut wherever it wanted to and not always where I wanted it to, but I could get my wood (usually cheap pine) to the approximate size with it and then plane it or sand it to get it the size that I wanted to. I also had a good variety of hand tools and rasps. A surform rasp was used frequently. Then I added a table top drill press, then a real router table and a plunge router. In woodworking there are many ways to do almost anything. Some are better than others, some are faster, or more accurate, but you can do almost anything that you want to with some very basic and a minimum of tools. It usually takes longer, but can be done. Starting with just the minimum and then adding as your skill level, finances, and needs increase will keep you from wasting money on tools that you may never need. Making jigs and fixtures as you need them will build your hand tool skills very quickly too. I made a bunch of small furniture, candle sconces, etc. with just these few hand and power tools, but learned a lot along the way.
If, somewhere in your future, you decide that woodworking is not for you, then you can go in another direction and you haven;t wasted a lot of time or money on expensive woodworking tools that you will likely only get back 1/2 of your investment or less for.
Good luck to you and whatever choices you make.
Charley
[OP]
Member
Fantastic post thank you, I have a tendency to buy items for what I MIGHT do or need as much as what I do need. Did the same for my Astronomy/Astrophotography hobby.
I have no artistic skills that I know of, I joke that I can't draw a straight line with two rulers, those 3 examples of wood burning were the first projects I ever did between 10-15 years ago, I recently started getting interested in it again and have my old burner and a brand new Razertip SS-D10 but I also desire to shape my own boards.
I am trying to decide on a scroll saw between Dewalt DW788 20" or save longer and get an Excalibur EX-21 or EX-30 (I like that the head tilts and not the table)
I have several scroll saw pattern books from a yard sale, I have no clue what would sell or how to charge for a given item. I have always given them away as gifts because I have no idea what my projects, time, and materials are worth.
Very nice detailed work in your pictures. BTW how do you sand the inside cuts smooth or do you have too?
Member
Edward,
When you scroll with the better saws and a fine tooth blade you don't have to sand much more than just removing the fuzzies from the edges of the cuts, I usually do this with a fingernail file, sometimes with one trimmed narrower, to get into small areas. It only takes a couple of strokes, usually at a 45 deg angle to the cut to remove them. Each one of these sticks provides a fine grit on one side and coarse grit on the other. I rarely use the coarse grit. The saw cuts are smooth, except for the occasional fuzzy edges on some woods, as long as the blade remains sharp. They will look laser cut to some people, but without the burning of the cut edges, if you don't use dull blades or try to cut too fast because these will burn the cuts. Don't expect long life from the blades. They rarely break with a better quality saw, but will dull quickly in hard woods. But at about $0.23 per blade when purchased in gross quantity, it's just part of the cost of woodworking. I can usually cut about eight of those little reindeer in hard maple before needing to replace the dull blade, but more in softer woods. I use Flying Dutchman brand blades almost exclusively,.
Excalibur saws are no longer available new, due to a vendor supply problem. They may be again someday, but Jet and Seyco are now new players in the higher quality scroll saw game and both saws looking very promising. Unfortunately, there is little chance of finding either one used, since both saws are new on the market.
If you get into scroll sawing, it helps to have a table saw for cutting the wood to size for scrolling. Cutting straight lines with a scroll saw is about as impossible as trying to scroll with a table saw. For pricing, if you can cut a reindeer and clean off the fuzzies in 10 minutes, you can make 6 reindeer in an hour. At $6 per reindeer, that's roughly $36/per hour, not counting the material or blade costs. I never sell anything that I make. I mostly teach and demonstrate, but I do give what I make away. My extended family consumes much of what I make, but the reindeer are mostly given away during the Christmas Season (Thanksgiving - New Years) to any woman who in some way helps me during that time. Cashiers, salesladies, nurses, waitresses, etc. are all given one, if they want it. When I wish them a Very Merry Christmas, I hold out my hand toward them with my palm down and a reindeer held in it. When they reach out to me, I drop one into their hand. I'm always thanked, sometimes hugged, and very rarely kissed on the cheek. The whole manufacturing and giving process puts me in a better Christmas Spirit and I've been doing it for eight years now. After doing so many it now only takes me about 6 minutes to make one and de-fuzz it. The ornaments take longer and should command a higher price accordingly.
Unfortunately, both the reindeer and the ornaments only seem to be in demand near or during the Christmas Season. If you are trying to supplement your income, you will need other products that will sell well during the rest of the year, and you will need to find where to be able to sell them. Flea markets are generally not a good place, because the shoppers are looking for bargains. Craft Fairs are better. You may be able to sell through consignment shops, but your profits will be much less. I have very little selling experience and none of it has been with woodworking. I'm just passing along what others that I know who sell their woodworking have experienced. What you sell has to be different than available through other sources, but priced reasonably, and it has to be placed where people in the right shopping mood are open to buying it at your prices. Don't even try to make duplicates of products that come from the Orient to sell. It has to be different, unique, and at a fair price.
When you buy tools, look closely at what choices are available, how well they are made, and what features that one has over the others. Don't get hung up on brand names, but do consider how easily that it will be to get parts and service for the tool that you are about to buy, should you ever need it. Try to find the best that you can for what you can spend. Cheap tools tend to not be very accurate or not last very long. Better quality tools from better manufacturers can last a lifetime. Buy it once and cry once. You will likely never have to replace it. I have power and hand tools that I bought over 50 years ago that are still very good and serving me well. Most have never even had to be repaired since I bought them.
Charley
Last edited by Charles Lent; 05-15-2017 at 9:44 AM.
Contributor
That comment should make it clear as day that you shouldn't max out 2 credit cards with the intent of making $500/mo selling craft projects.
Make this a fun ever evolving hobby like most of us have done. Learn as you go, make shop stuff like benches and storage, and buy what you need.
Member
I prefer to do side work on a very limited basis, ergo I choose projects that I will enjoy doing and are profitable for me. The minute I have to take projects that I am not interested in or do woodworking as a form of mandatory income, a lot of the joy goes out of it for me.
Member
A few really good tools will do far more than a whole bunch of cheap tools. Quoting the above for truth.
Contributor
Edward,
You might find hand tool work quite therapeutic (I know I do). Yes, you can spend a lot of money for quality tools, but for $1000 - 1500 you can really put together a pretty nice hand tool kit.
If you just got a tablesaw for now and did not deal in rough lumber you can do many small projects.
Couple resources to check on YouTube: Paul Sellers, The Unplugged Woodshop.
Good luck on whatever you decide.
Contributor
Instead of buying new, cheap, imported stuff, be patient and watch for deals on used, quality tools in excellent condition.
"Anything seems possible when you don't know what you're doing."
Contributor
My suggestion is not to outfit your shop all at once. Start with some basics, maybe even some hand tools, and acquire additional tools as you need them to do the work you are doing at the time. From experience, I can tell you that there is no real "basic" set of tools, only those that you use regularly to make what you are making. Over the years, I have acquired many tools just because I thought they would be great for future projects, only to find out that I can do the work with what I have already or that I never end up doing that particular project. I haven't read the rest of the posts, so don't know exactly what you want to accomplish, but start small and grow with your requirements.
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