Cyclone issues

[Dave Schmittou]

I have a 2 H.P. Grizzly dust collector with a cyclone mounted on a large dust bin. I had the cyclone mounted on a 30 gal garbage can and it worked well except for the fact it would fill much too fast when running my planer a 18" Woodmaster. I built a large dust box, sealed every joint and mounted the cyclone on top. now when I run the planer the cyclone plugs at the outlet going into the bin, it's not plugging tight just not dropping into the bin this happens as soon as I start running the planer less than a gallon of shavings hits the bottom of the bin then starts building up in the cyclone until it over fills and plugs the intake on the dust collector. I have plenty of vacuum.
Thank You in advance
Dave

[glenn bradley]

Is your new container round?

[Dave Schmittou]

Is your new container round?

No it's more of a triangle, does the cyclone's action have to continue into the container?
Dqave

[John K Jordan]

No it's more of a triangle, does the cyclone's action have to continue into the container?
Dqave

From the dust in the round bin under my cyclone, it appears the column of air is spinning far down from the top, perhaps all the way to the bottom. I don't know whether or how much this affects the way the chips move.

I don't remember anything on Bill Pentz's site about round bins but you might search there. He did mention this when discussing cyclone design concerning the reversal point: "too high causes the cyclone to plug when processing larger chips and too low sucks the fine dust right out of the bin." http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyc...clone_plan.cfm But it is probably safe to assume the cyclone you have is designed properly.

I did find this just now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3asQ9AoExwk This guy put an inspection port in his bin and made a video of it in operation. The vortex here obviously extends all the way to the bottom of the bin. From this video I suspect the spinning air would make at least some difference.

Maybe turbulence from a non-round bin disturbs the airflow at a critical point. Could you mock up a round big for testing by putting a cylindrical sleeve in the top of your triangular bin, fastened to the bottom of the lid and maybe hanging down a foot or so? Maybe add an inspection port on the top of your bin and watch the action.

JKJ

[Dave Schmittou]

From the dust in the round bin under my cyclone, it appears the column of air is spinning far down from the top, perhaps all the way to the bottom. I don't know whether or how much this affects the way the chips move.

I don't remember anything on Bill Pentz's site about round bins but you might search there. He did mention this when discussing cyclone design concerning the reversal point: "too high causes the cyclone to plug when processing larger chips and too low sucks the fine dust right out of the bin." http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyc...clone_plan.cfm But it is probably safe to assume the cyclone you have is designed properly.

I did find this just now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3asQ9AoExwk This guy put an inspection port in his bin and made a video of it in operation. The vortex here obviously extends all the way to the bottom of the bin. From this video I suspect the spinning air would make at least some difference.

Maybe turbulence from a non-round bin disturbs the airflow at a critical point. Could you mock up a round big for testing by putting a cylindrical sleeve in the top of your triangular bin, fastened to the bottom of the lid and maybe hanging down a foot or so? Maybe add an inspection port on the top of your bin and watch the action.

JKJ

Thanks for the information, I'll come up with a test of some sort or just completely redesign and rebuild my collection bin.

[Andy Giddings]

I can concur with John's comments - if I open up all my gates so that the CV 1800 is running at max, the fine dust in the round 55 gallon fiber bin swirls around the top of the bin, coating the level detection sensor and triggering a false reading. This happens even when there is little dust in the bin.

[glenn bradley]

Thanks for the information, I'll come up with a test of some sort or just completely redesign and rebuild my collection bin.

I have seen very large square or rectangular bins work. I assume they are large enough that there is little or no interference by the sidewalls with the airflow/motion if that is what is going on here.

[Carl Kona]

Dave,

Before you rebuild your box, try and put something round and flexible in the bin (like a leaf bag expander/formica, etc) or your old bin if it will fit. This will let you know if that is your problem. The shape should not matter as there has been quite a bit of research regarding the cyclone exit port with straighteners, expansion chambers, longer tubes between bin and cyclone and nothing made a significant difference. Yes the cyclonic action continues into the collection bin, but is apparently not required. That considered I would suspect a leak between your new bin and the cyclone. The other issue is your cyclone. Is this a SDD or the ebay metal cyclone? If it is the later, I have heard of others complaining about the small 4" exit port frequently clogging as you describe.

Let us know what you find. Hope this helps.

Carl

[John Lanciani]

I've been using rectangular bins for almost 20 years with zero issues. First with a 2hp woodsucker and now with an Oneida V3000. If the bin is properly sealed it works just fine; my current bin holds a cubic yard of dust and it gets packed to the gills with no problems at all.

[John K Jordan]

I've been using rectangular bins for almost 20 years with zero issues. First with a 2hp woodsucker and now with an Oneida V3000. If the bin is properly sealed it works just fine; my current bin holds a cubic yard of dust and it gets packed to the gills with no problems at all.

Yes, I know several people with rectangular bins, some of them large. I don't know anyone with a triangular bin like Dave mentioned. But a leak in the bin could well be an issue. I wonder if there are their any other symptoms of a leak in Dave's system such as blowing the fine dust into the filter.

JKJ

[Dave Schmittou]

I've been using rectangular bins for almost 20 years with zero issues. First with a 2hp woodsucker and now with an Oneida V3000. If the bin is properly sealed it works just fine; my current bin holds a cubic yard of dust and it gets packed to the gills with no problems at all.

The dust bin is 53"x40" in a corner, it is triangle shaped. It is 40" tall and made from 1/2" osb. I caulked every seam. It is a ebay metal unit with a 6" outlet. My problem happens when running 12" pine, with the garbage can I would run the speed at 20 fps and it worked fine, it just filled to fast and would plug if I didn't empty it on every other board or sooner. The shavings produced are very large, I have tried slowing down the feed rate to no avail. The unit is well sealed to the top of the bin. I only run pine about three times a year and about 200 b.f. at time, it became a real pain to empty because the cyclone is located in a small room I built on the back of my shop and I have to go outside and around the building to get to it so a larger bin is needed. I just spent about 1 1/2 hours reading all the info from the supplied link and am more confused than ever. I did see mention of a push type but couldn't find any additional information on it. As crazy as it may seem, is it possible that I have too much suction? I went through the entire system when building the new bin and checked and sealed every seam and joint in the system and replaced some blast gates that didn't look like they were sealing very well. There is a noticeable increase in the amount of air flow in the system. I really appreciate all the input from you guys, this has been driving me almost to the point of buying an entire new system with money that could be better spent elsewhere.
Dave

[Carl Kona]

Dave,

You don't have too much suction with a 2HP dust collector, but maybe too little (I think you need 650cfm minimum for you model - which is a challenge with a 4" inlet). Is your blower mounted directly on top of the cyclone or on the original cart and connected through a hose to your cyclone? If it is through a hose you may not have enough suction. Do you vent outside or through a filter? Is the filter clean? When the discharge is blocked everything goes into the filter. The other issue is your debris (large, light shavings), that and fine dust can be a challenge for a separator. Others with similar problems of having shavings causing clogs chose to put a separator (trash can, box type, etc) right next to the planer. This catches the shavings right next to the source and only sends minor debris tot he cyclone. The problem is you lose a lot of suction from this setup.

I would try and improve suction before adding another separator. Blower on top of cyclone, little if any flex hose, clean or no filter (to test), no hard 90's in pipe, move planer right next to cyclone.

Hope this helps. Let us know what you do.

Carl

[John K Jordan]

I keep going back to what what Dave said in his original post - the suction and separation was fine until he changed the bin: " I had the cyclone mounted on a 30 gal garbage can and it worked well except for the fact it would fill much too fast"

Unless something else changed at the same time, this would point to some issue with the new bin or the connection to it.

JKJ

[Chris Parks]

There was some discussion many years ago on the CV forum regarding the length of connection hose between the bin and the cyclone causing this issue. I think it was all conjecture with no proven basis but it might be worth a look and a try. The posts should still be there.

[Dave Schmittou]

There was some discussion many years ago on the CV forum regarding the length of connection hose between the bin and the cyclone causing this issue. I think it was all conjecture with no proven basis but it might be worth a look and a try. The posts should still be there.

The cyclone is mounted to the top of the bin, I do have about 8' of 8" hose coming off the top getting reduced to 6" right at the blower. The system is much tighter now than before (I re-sealed every joint and replaced anything that even looked like it might have a small leak. I have already tried venting to the outside - no difference. I have 2 tight 90's between the planer and the cyclone. In the morning I am going to temp back in the garbage can for a test, then mount the blower on top of the cyclone and change out the 90's for 2 45's with some pipe between them and go over everything including the bin with a smoke stick (chemical). If all fails, which separator do you recommend (size and brand). With it setting next to the planer it wouldn't be that big of deal to empty it every other board. With all the frustration I might have to break down and get a better unit, as the saying goes - I might be trying to pack 10 lbs. of sawdust into a 2lb bin. I really appreciate all the suggestions and input I'm getting - thank you
Dave