Botched Stair Thread Deleted?

[Ole Anderson]

I was enjoying the back and forth of the botched stair thread and looking forward to the final resolution. Did the OP delete the whole thing? If so, I really wouldn't blame him. Or am I just not finding it? I agree, it was getting personal. Usually they just get closed, not deleted.

[Lee Schierer]

It was removed because the thread had gone off the rails. There was name calling and piling on. Any post that does that will be removed.

[Chuck Wintle]

I was enjoying the back and forth of the botched stair thread and looking forward to the final resolution. Did the OP delete the whole thing? If so, I really wouldn't blame him. Or am I just not finding it? I agree, it was getting personal. Usually they just get closed, not deleted.

Probably because some were getting flamed and this is supposed to be a "friendly" forum.

[Keith Outten]

Its difficult to justify calling anyone stupid here, in fact it is what I consider an unfriendly term. Nothing wrong with a spirited conversation and disagreements when they happen as long as everyone shows respect for their peers here.
.

[Ole Anderson]

Some PM's from the mods to the name callers might be in order. I fully agree, some of the comments were not in the spirit of the Creek, and I called them out on it. Surprised I didn't get more support.

[Mel Fulks]

Surprised I didn't get more support.

There was agreement ,but you are right, should have been more support.

[Doug Garson]

Seems to me a more appropriate response would have been PMs to those violating the spirit of the forum and deleting the offending posts rather than punishing the innocent along with the guilty. It was an interesting post with some lessons to be learned. Will we ever know if/how the issue got resolved?

[Lee Schierer]

Seems to me a more appropriate response would have been PMs to those violating the spirit of the forum and deleting the offending posts rather than punishing the innocent along with the guilty. It was an interesting post with some lessons to be learned. Will we ever know if/how the issue got resolved?

PM's do get sent and sometimes folks get temporary or permanent suspensions, when it gets to the point where editing would make the thread look like Swiss cheese it is best to just remove it.

[Frederick Skelly]

Seems to me a more appropriate response would have been PMs to those violating the spirit of the forum and deleting the offending posts rather than punishing the innocent along with the guilty. It was an interesting post with some lessons to be learned. Will we ever know if/how the issue got resolved?

Hi guys,
I've seen variants on that same viewpoint discussed 3 times in the few years I've been coming here. Sometimes it's caused hard feelings and folks have left, never to return. Really skilled people. I can also think of a Moderator who threw in the towel after one of those food fights. So, the subject of how to handle threads like that is REALLY emotionally charged.

I don't mean to sound like a pompous you-know-what, but I'd ask all of us to remember that the Mods are: handling a lot of threads, trying to do a good job, and volunteers. They work for the Community and they do it for free. So please try to cut them some slack where you can. At least give 'em the benefit of the doubt.

Respectfully,
Fred

[Doug Garson]

Hi guys,
I've seen variants on that same viewpoint discussed 3 times in the few years I've been coming here. Sometimes it's caused hard feelings and folks have left, never to return. Really skilled people. I can also think of a Moderator who threw in the towel after one of those food fights. So, the subject of how to handle threads like that is REALLY emotionally charged.

I don't mean to sound like a pompous you-know-what, but I'd ask all of us to remember that the Mods are: handling a lot of threads, trying to do a good job, and volunteers. They work for the Community and they do it for free. So please try to cut them some slack where you can. At least give 'em the benefit of the doubt.

Respectfully,
Fred

Fred I don't disagree with you and I don't think my comment was overly critical, just expressing my opinion.

"PM's do get sent and sometimes folks get temporary or permanent suspensions, when it gets to the point where editing would make the thread look like Swiss cheese it is best to just remove it."

Lee I appreciate the work you and the other mods do, I agree there were some inappropriate posts but I didn't think it was out of control and I was looking forward to learning if/how the OP resolved this issue. I also thought it was an interesting discussion on whether code compliance was the responsibility of the contractor or the owner. If you and the other mods felt it was necessary to shut it down then so be it.
Doug

[Frederick Skelly]

Thanks Doug. I didnt either. Just wanted to mention how emotionally charged the issue is.
Have a good evening.
Fred

[Lee Schierer]

I also thought it was an interesting discussion on whether code compliance was the responsibility of the contractor or the owner. If you and the other mods felt it was necessary to shut it down then so be it.
Doug

Code compliance is a joint responsibility. As a property owner you are ultimately responsible as it is your property and your pocketbook that will be affected. Contractors are supposed to be knowledgeable, but knowledge varies widely. When in doubt you need to get the local code enforcement types to make the decisions regarding code compliance. You also need to remember that codes deal with safety and structure not cosmetics and are the minimum requirements.

[Scott Brader]

Its difficult to justify calling anyone stupid here, in fact it is what I consider an unfriendly term. Nothing wrong with a spirited conversation and disagreements when they happen as long as everyone shows respect for their peers here.
.

Great point, Keith! The anonymity of the Internet; be it on forums or "social" media or whatever, seems to cause a lot of people to lose all common sense and interact with people in ways they never would if they were looking them in the eye.

I wish we had a thumbs up button, or something, so we could weigh in with our agreement without having to do a full reply.

Scott

[Edwin Santos]

Code compliance is a joint responsibility. As a property owner you are ultimately responsible as it is your property and your pocketbook that will be affected. Contractors are supposed to be knowledgeable, but knowledge varies widely. When in doubt you need to get the local code enforcement types to make the decisions regarding code compliance. You also need to remember that codes deal with safety and structure not cosmetics and are the minimum requirements.

Perhaps I respectfully disagree with you (depending on what you mean by joint responsibility). I believe a licensed contractor carries a much larger burden than the homeowner regarding code compliance responsibility. The homeowner is relying on the contractor's knowledge which was hopefully proven as a part of his/her license qualification and exam. Think of a lawyer/client relationship. Following your logic, yes, the client is ultimately responsible in the sense they "own" their legal matter and the ultimate consequences, but they are within their rights to totally rely on their licensed attorney for his/her specialized knowledge of the law. Same with a doctor/patient relationship. If the client/homeowner/patient is knowledgeable, it's a helpful bonus, but they also have the privilege of having no knowledge at all and placing their reliance on the licensed professional. I don't feel there is ever a case where a licensed contractor completes work that is non-compliant with code, and it can be deemed the homeowner's fault.

This is another reason why only using licensed and insured contractors, and checking license history and references is important. I don't like getting anyone in trouble, but if a contractor does work that is not compliant with code, and they are unwilling to resolve it, they should be reported to the Contractor's Board.

You make a good point about turning to local code enforcement officials if there is a question. Those folks are there to protect the public and part of their job is to be an available resource to us. We've paid for that service with our tax dollars. The contractor's Board is also available to help the public when issues arise (I didn't read the whole stair thread before it was deleted, so maybe that was discussed).

[Lee Schierer]

I believe a licensed contractor carries a much larger burden than the homeowner regarding code compliance responsibility.

It depends on whether the contractor is in fact licensed and the licensing procedure as to whether it determines any level of competence. Licensing processes vary widely by municipality.