Looking at quitting my day job????

[Dave Tinley]

Jim-
If I were in your shoes I would jump into it, now.
You seem to have all the details worked out and you are very close to obtaining a dream you have.
Alot of the advise you have recieved is on the practacal side but what about the emotional side.
Sure you can wait another year, get those extra benefits but that's also another year out of your life your not doing what you want to do. Its a year you cant rewind and do over. Not wanting to sound morbid but what if something happens in that year? Either medically, financially or some weird twist of fate that could prevent you from doing what you love? Then what?
I have a day job in the autobody industry, been doing this for over 25 years and doing woodworking as a sideline. I have found that I am the most happy and content with my life, is when I get up in the morning and open up my shop doors, when I smell the sawdust, when I am faced with a woodworking project to conquer. And I believe there is no amount of money that can replace that happiness.
I am 48 years old and have a goal to have a fulltime ww job by the time I am 50. I am in the process of working out all those "details" that you seem to have already worked out.
I would much rather be 57 years old and look back and say that I am very content that I took the chance, then to be 57 and say I wish I had of taking the chance.
Good luck on your decision and let us know how it feels that first day you walk into your shop, living your dream.

Dave

[Byron Trantham]

Jim,
You might consider this - pretend you're retired. Try to live with your projected retirement income for a few months. Take the excess from your current paycheck and put it in the bank. My wife and I did this and it worked. My woodworking has provided the extra disposable income to do things my retirement check won't cover. I have been retired for four years and income from wood working is NOT dependable. I have learned one thing; I'm a one man shop and there is just so much I can earn without hiring people. I did not want to get into that! Right now I am without work. I just finished my last project which put about $3K in my pocket but I don't have anything left to do. I know from experience it will start again - when is the question. I use this dead time to tweak my shop, clean the shop to an inch of it's life, make jigs I've been wanting and too busy to make and just generally relax. If you can live on your retirement income and use your wood working income for fun things you will probably be a happier more relaxed person. Good luck with your decision. BTW - I was still VERY scarred to retire!

[Jim Hager]

Jim,
You might consider this - pretend you're retired. Try to live with your projected retirement income for a few months. Take the excess from your current paycheck and put it in the bank. My wife and I did this and it worked. My woodworking has provided the extra disposable income to do things my retirement check won't cover. I have been retired for four years and income from wood working is NOT dependable. I have learned one thing; I'm a one man shop and there is just so much I can earn without hiring people. I did not want to get into that! Right now I am without work. I just finished my last project which put about $3K in my pocket but I don't have anything left to do. I know from experience it will start again - when is the question. I use this dead time to tweak my shop, clean the shop to an inch of it's life, make jigs I've been wanting and too busy to make and just generally relax. If you can live on your retirement income and use your wood working income for fun things you will probably be a happier more relaxed person. Good luck with your decision. BTW - I was still VERY scarred to retire!

Thanks it is good to know that somebody else was a chicken. We sorta have been doing the thing you mention by pouring nearly all my monthly income into paying off the house plus whatever I could drag in from the shop. In fact we have been living on about $400 less per month than I will draw upon retirement if my figures are right. Since the house is now paid off we will use the rest of my time to save everything we can get our hands on to put back enough to buy the next new vehicle. Our place is new (3 years on the shop and 2 years on the house) and we have late model vehicles that are paid for as well so we've got a good start.

I found out yesterday that I will not be able to sell back my sick days if I retire 1 year early thus not being able to count the value of the sick days on my last years contract. That will put a drain on the monthly income too.

I surely do appreciate all of the replies that I have recieved on this thread. Everyone's thoughts are similar to my own and at least that lets me know that I've been thinking straight. Assuming that an old bunch of woodworkers know something about straight. It takes time to post responses to these discussions and I thank each one of you for your time.

I still don't know what to do but at least we've had a great discussion on the topic.

[wallace chapman]

Hey Jim, just wanted to give you some information that pushed me closer to the direction of turning a fascination into a business of working with wood.

This is one of the best Forums I have come across for advice on woodworking and business on the net. I did come across this great site where this discussion was debated.

I hope I can post the full text without violating this forums rules. Some people will find the first post to be their answer and others will find the second post closer to the truth. I personally took the second post as one of my motivations to get myself inline with doing this full time.

The first post is from Howard's Ruttan's website found here:
http://inthewoodshop.org/general/wwa09.shtml

<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=0 width="90%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>On Going Professional


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I welcome feedback from my readers, and this article brought a response from Jim Delahunty, a professional woodworker. I felt that his comments were valid and important so I posted them here on inthewoodshop.org. You can read Jim's thoughts here.

Howard Ruttan

December 15, 2002

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I wrote this article a while ago and the issue comes up every once in a while on rec.woodworking. Sometimes I think I am the only one who feels this way. However this month, Ernie Conover, author of 7 woodworking books including the first and second editions of the classic, The Lathe Book, shows that I am not the only one who believes one should proudly pronounce their amateur status before the world. Read about it here!

Howard Ruttan

November 6, 2002

<HR align=center width="75%" color=#0080c0>Going professional is a big step, one that can involve a few changes or a total restructuring of your methods of work. A person who sells crafty woodwork or simple furniture at craft sales might consider himself a professional, and providing he is earning money working wood, he is right. On the other end of the spectrum there is the full service cabinet or furniture shop. This is usually a significant departure from the backyard recreational woodworker. Either way, I have decided that I choose to make my living doing something other than woodworking. If you work wood for reasons even closely resembling mine, I would suggest that you do the same. If you are unsure, don't do it. If you are absolutely positive, well different strokes, but I suggest that you look into it in detail before you start as there may be a number of hurdles in your way.
I would add the following disclaimer at this point. The following is not intended to be a comprehensive list. The point of this little essay is to provide you with a few, and I stress the word few, things to ponder while you consider what is probably the dream of every woodworker - to get paid for working wood.
For me, woodworking is a catharsis. It is a love, a need, a method of cleansing, not just a means to an end. Going professional will associate deadlines, rude or unappreciative customers, boring administrative tasks and the like with your woodworking. As soon as this happens, the magic leaves it. I know this from experience. Basically what happens is that you lose your hobby. The fun disappears and the craft becomes diluted by the customer service and business aspects of making money. You will stop woodworking in your spare time, thus it no longer is your hobby. Before I started taking money for my worked I asked around a bit. The common thread I found was that although people enjoyed what they were doing, the working wood for pure enjoyment aspect was lost to working wood as work. After I started to do it for money I found out that they were right. In the long run I decided that it was not worth the hassle.
In addition, there are many factors you have to consider. You can't just turn your garage or basement shop into a working business. First you have to decide what your business is going to be. Then you have to form a company. At this point you have to decide whether you are going to be a sole proprietorship, a partnership or a limited liability corporation. It isn't an easy decision. Consult a lawyer. Even if you think there is even the least little possibility that you might get sued you probably want to incorporate. This involves even more paper work and other such things.
Then you have to get a license to practice from your locality. Is you basement shop going to pass muster? The locality, and in all likelihood all of your neighbors will get to decide for you whether they think the noise and increased traffic and other factors are going to be acceptable. You may find yourself looking for another shop space. This may be especially the case if you finish with combustible spray finishes. Heaven help you if you fudge a little on the description and get caught by the neighbors later on.
Once others decide for you whether you have to move, some additional money (a little if you can stay in your present shop, or a lot if you have to set up all over again) will be required for getting underway. You need quotation forms, letterhead, business cards, possibly a logo or design work, signs, new license plates for you vehicle, or maybe a new vehicle. You must draft a business plan, if you truly wish to be successful, or if you even expect to stand a chance at getting business loan. I haven't even mentioned going to the bank to open your business accounts yet. Without them you will not be able to enjoy the money saving low prices of some of the wholesale vendors, who may not deal with retail customers at all. You will also have to read. If you aren't already familiar with the how to's of marketing, you will have to learn fast. Like it or not, most of your time will now be spent marketing. You will probably have to be bonded if you are going to do any installation work. There is also the issue of all those tools you don't have now, but need. Along with this comes learning how to haul them around so that they don't get stolen, and you always have what you need on the job site. Unless you are just making a few things for a craft sale (which is an entirely different animal to prepare for), you are going to have to be prepared for a slow period until you get enough work to sustain you. You won't be earning right away. In fact, depending on your expense you may not earn anything for up to a year or more. Any how much will you charge? Learning how to charge for the work you do is an art-form all in itself. It took me a long time to come up with a realistic shop rate and the estimating skill to implement it. I never did rely on woodworking for a living so I probably don't have it right yet anyway. Then there are medical insurance and unemployment benefits to consider, and so on. Still not convinced? Unsure? Don't do it. Look into it some more and be sure before you do it. Or are you convinced it is what you want to do? If you are convinced, let me recommend you look at the following list of books. They will assist you in many of the issues that I have listed. Make sure that you do your homework and look into every angle. Talk with fellow woodworkers. Visit the competition. Believe it or not, you will probably get your best information from them. And if it sounds like we are all trying to talk you out of it, well we just want you to be absolutely sure before you try it. If you work wood for the reasons that I do, please don't consider it. It will be very disappointing. But if you are sure, good luck and Godspeed

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Please pay attention to the second post as you may find it as heartening as I did.

Wallace

[wallace chapman]

Here is the Second post and reply found on Howard Ruttan's website found here:
http://inthewoodshop.org/feedback/pro01.shtml

<!-- end title graphic selection code --><!-- ********************************** --><!-- reset date configuration --> <TABLE cellSpacing=2 cellPadding=3 width="90%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><!-- Insert data here --><TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=0 width="90%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>A Reader Responds:

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Jim Delahunty, a professional woodworker, responds indicating that although many opinions (including my article) seem to focus on the negative aspects of going professional, this can actually provide impetus to empower one to succeed. I thought that his comments, and the story he tells, were important and inspiring, and would make a good companion to my article. I am usually an upbeat person - although I make no apologies for my opinons I express on this site - but we all need to be reminded of the good that can happen when being told you can't do something only serves to drive us harder to do it anyway.

Howard Ruttan

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</TD></TR><TR><TD>From: Jim Delahunty
Date: Thursday, November 28, 2002
Subject: Some thoughts on going pro


Howard,
I am not writing to be argumentative, however I would like to add one more facet to your essay on why woodworkers might be better off not going professional. As you say, you are someone for whom this decision meant not only losing a hobby, but also gaining an occupation that you presumably didn't anticipate, or love enough to continue. If I had to guess, I'd say that this scenario is probably the most common one.
I do feel that there is wisdom in affirming the nagging concerns of those on the verge of going pro, and that those who don't have fear probably should. I also know that the people who are destined to succeed at something are going to be inspired, rather than discouraged by being told they are up against the odds, so perhaps no harm can come from giving a negative perspective. When I was about to go into business with a partner, his father (who had failed as a general contractor) gave my friend and I a long speech about how much business we would have to do just to pay the overhead - about all the bad customers - about taxes.....you get the idea. On the way home I saw truck after truck with the proud names of contracting firms on their doors. Some were multi-generational, some I had been seeing around town since I was a kid.
My friend wouldn't admit it at the time, but his fear of the possibility his dad might say, "See, I told you you would fail!" kept him from committing to the partnership. I didn't respond with fear. All I could think about was the anger I felt at being told, though implicitly, that I was overestimating my abilities if I thought that I could do what other people around me were obviously doing. To me, the idea was to see myself ten years in the future. What did I want my life to look like and what did I need to do to make it happen? Was it really so impossible to imagine that I could provide a competent service to the community, get paid the same as the guys in the trucks I had seen, and live a middle-class lifestyle? I was willing to be objective. I was willing to see the obstacles in my path, but I wasn't willing to let my friend's father be right.
Skip ahead ten years, and I'm sitting in a house in the country worth twice as much as my friend's father's. Looking out the window, There is a small woodshop full of machines that were long-ago paid for. As I think of the last ten years of work, I remember cabinets, furniture and the restoration of victorian homes - beautiful work that has been a privilege to do - work that I got by paying dues and honing my skills.
Your essay made me look back at the last ten years of my life and consider the opposite outcome. It reminded me of my own inhibitions and doubts. I imagined a scenario where I had a dream of being a woodworker that turned out to be less enjoyable or profitable than I had hoped. Would my life, and my opinion of my self, be better having made a go of it and decided to stop, the way my friend's father had, or would I have been better off avoiding the entire process? That's not really an easy question. Trying and failing for him meant bitterness that he was passing down to his own son and his son's friends. Obviously there was something more. There was the idea that going after something with a combination of drive, humility, and a willingness to honestly assess, should be it's own reward. To me, building things is something I would do without being paid. I am willing to incorporate a certain amount of the unpleasantness that doing business entails because anything I do for a living 40 hours a week is not going to be fun for all 40 hours. Taking the longest possible view, I try to see myself at the end of my career (or careers). I can't believe I'm going to look back at the thousands and thousands of hours of woodworking and wish I had done something else. I'm not sure why I wrote this to you. I've read it back a couple of times, and I still can't summarize a point, but I felt the need to share this with you. As I said, I think what you are saying is true and valid, I don't really even disagree, but I wanted to add this. Thanks for reading - Jim
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I hope this helps a little as it did for me.

Wallace

[Jim Hager]

I thought you guys might like to know that I have turned in my resignation just last Friday and am going to be out of a job come July 1. I've got to come to school to be a teacher for 38 more days now.

[Tom Stovell]

I thought you guys might like to know that I have turned in my resignation just last Friday and am going to be out of a job come July 1. I've got to come to school to be a teacher for 38 more days now.

Congratulations on the decision and pending retirement--at least from the classroom. I've got 44 more days to 'mold the future and influence those young lives' and then I'm done, too. Those 31 years go by rather quickly. (-:

Tom

[Steve Evans]

Congrats Jim

As many others have said, you'll probably work harder now than you have throughout your career, but it has the potential to be the most rewarding work that you will do. I was laid off from a flying job with a major airline and went into business for myself. When the recall came it was a tough decision whether to go back or not. I love flying, but there are a lot of aspects of being in business for myself that I miss.

Steve

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Jim.........sounds like a gloat to me! A well deserved gloat!

[Tom Jones III]

Thanks for the update. Congrats on the upcoming transition and thank you for working with the little miscreants for all those years, you left a lasting impact on their lives and all the people they touch.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

Jim,
I remember your post from way back. I remember how you were sitting on a fence trying to decide which way to go. I was thinking to myself that you will probably follow the same path as I would. That is, I'd probably work one more year which will then persuade me to make the change. That 'one year' always seems to bring clarity.

Good luck on your retirement...and congradulations on your new (or modified) woodworking venture.

-Jeff

[Charlie Plesums]

Congratulations. Pulling the trigger is scary, but watching your plans, I don't know anyone who is better prepared than you. Best wishes at this fork in the road.

Remember that, with today's life expectancies, you now have another 30+ year career ahead of you

[Anthony Anderson]

Congratulations Jim. Well deserved I'm sure. Now you can sit in the shop and have the first cup of coffee in the morning and enjoy the early morning air and the smell of sawdust. No better feeling in the world, other than teaching kids, IMO. Hopefully the kids know where to find you, as I am sure they will, sometime in the future, want to stop by and say thanks. The excitement of a new lease on life. Enjoy it Everyday Jim. Good Luck, Bill

[Eddie Watkins]

Congratulations Jim, and thanks for initiating this thread. I have my retirement papers filled out except for a date. I have read all comments a couple of times trying to muster the courage to write in a date and hand in my retirement papers. It really is a tough decision and I'm glad you could make the decision. Good Luck.

Eddie

[Ed Breen]

Well done Jim,
I know that you'll be successful and never regret your decision. And anyhoo you'll now have time to go out to the river for fishing in the middle of the day!!! ho ho. As an extra, I've always thought that Pocahontas is a pretty little town.
Ed ,