Millers Falls No. 14 Restoration Questions

[Josh Hutchinson]

<p>

Just walked down to the shop and checked.....a type 2 Millers Falls chip breaker and a type 20 made in England Stanley chipbreaker.....all holes line up exactly. Pictures later, IF wanted.....

Great, thanks. I took another shot at sharpening the original chipbreaker. As far as I can tell the mating surface is very flat and I can&#39;t see any light between it and the blade. I tested to see if I could get a piece of paper stuck in there and I couldn&#39;t. I got a few nice shavings this time, but still a lot of wood stuck between the two. I&#39;m wondering if I need to sharpen the underside to make the tip a more acute angle as when it is tightened against the blade it flexes and this may be lifting the leading edge off the blade.</p>

[Josh Hutchinson]

Howdy Josh,

This sounds like you are having some of the typical first time rehabbing a plane problems. Either my memory is bad or you haven't mentioned your location. If you are in the Pacific Northwest let me know if you would like to get together. Otherwise you may try a few simple things to get your plane performing better.

Getting the frog to sit properly can be a pain. Start with making sure the mouth/slot is square to the sides of the plane. Check front and back edges from both sides. The frog should be aligned with the back of the mouth if the edge of the mouth checked square. Tighten the screws holding the frog a little at a time and alternate between the screws as you are tightening them. This helps to prevent twisting. A thin ruler should slide down the front of the frog and not catch on the edge of the mouth. The ruler will also help you gauge if both sides are set the same.

Another problem could be the sole is ground perfectly flat, however it may be out of parallel to the seat for the frog. If that is the case you may have to try a shim under one side of the frog.

For the chip breaker you may just need a little more work on the edge that mates to the blade. I am not sure if the Millers Falls chip breaker is interchangeable with the Stanley chip breaker or not. Steven Newman might be able to shed some light on this.

For more information on frog setting and chip breaker tweaking here is an old post of mine:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...ker-to-Jointer

It is listed in the Neanderthal wisdom/FAQs:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...al-wisdom-FAQs

jtk

Thanks Jim. I've checked the mouth and it is parallel to the sides of the plane. At least it's as parallel as can be not being a perfect rectangle. I think you may be right about the seat for the frog not being parallel to the sole. Before I start shimming to correct it, is it a major issue? I'm just not clear on whether the blade needs to be perfectly perpendicular to the direction of the cut, or if it's more an issue with the gap between the blade and the slot being uneven. My concern is that shimming may lift one side of the frog off of its contact point near the slot.

[steven c newman]

I usually try for a "knife edge" ....

[Roy Turbett]

Just checked with a square - both sides flare out slightly from the sole. I don't think they had to remove much when they ground it, not enough to create the issue I am seeing, but possible enough to exaggerate it.

The frog and iron should be in place when the sole is lapped or machined so it is under the same tension it will be under when the plane is in use. Since both sides flare out, it could be that your plane was disassembled when it was machined. Have you used a sharpie to see if the frog is mating properly?

[Josh Hutchinson]

The frog and iron should be in place when the sole is lapped or machined so it is under the same tension it will be under when the plane is in use. Since both sides flare out, it could be that your plane was disassembled when it was machined. Have you used a sharpie to see if the frog is mating properly?

Yes the frog was removed when the sole was surface ground. I haven't checked it with a sharpie yet but I will try that next.

For now, I've had success with the chipbreaker, and am now getting some nice shavings. The cutting edge is still not quite parallel to the throat, but I was able to minimize the issue by moving the blade as far to one side as it would go in relation to the chipbreaker.

2017-11-28 17.57.10 copy.jpg

[Jim Koepke]

When it came back from Chisel & Forge, I lapped the sole. Did NOT see any need to have it ground. never have, either.

Most planes will do fine without much work done to the sole. Where having flatness perfection matters is when you want to make super thin shavings. So save it for the smoothers.

The cutting edge is still not quite parallel to the throat, but I was able to minimize the issue by moving the blade as far to one side as it would go in relation to the chipbreaker.

Was this done with the lateral adjustment lever?

You may find a little rotational adjustment to the frog will alleviate the problem.

jtk

[steven c newman]

More of a "Show & Tell"

I have several No. 9 handplanes, along with the No. 8. There is a No. 11, and this No.14. I also have a #90, and a #900. Someday, I might just get the hang of how these work...

[Mike Brady]

Look at this project plane as a great learning experience even though you may not have the ending you had hoped for. A couple of things caught my attention: You had the plane bottom machined flat, but is it co-planar with the plane body and most importantly, the frog seat? Machining a plane (the second time) makes the sole thinner, which can result in flexing of the sole when the lever cap is installed. The lever cap is tensioned by pulling on the screw that is threaded into the frog, which can in-turn flex the bottom of the plane. The other potential problem is that you may have filed away too much of the chip breaker's leading edge, making it lose contact with the iron. That could be corrected by bending more curve into front of the chip breaker and then lightly filing it true.

You have invested quite a bit of time and some money in this plane, yet you are not at the point of satisfaction with it. I would answer that there are lots of good planes available that can be had for $50.00 or less. You may want to go that route before investing more in the one you have.

[Roy Turbett]

I got a pretty good deal on a 605 Bedrock that was in nice shape except for a significant nail gouge in the sole. I was able to get rid of the gouge by lapping it with the plane assembled on a piece of MDF starting with 80 grit paper and took it down to 400 grit. It ended up perfectly flat and square. All told it took me about 7 innings of a Tigers game. Unfortunately, the Tigers lost!

[Josh Hutchinson]

Was this done with the lateral adjustment lever?

You may find a little rotational adjustment to the frog will alleviate the problem.

jtk

Yes, I have the lateral adjustment lever most of the way to one side. I also moved the chipbreaker as far to one side as possible when mating it to the blade. I'm getting nice shavings with the plane now, as seen in the picture in my last post. I'd still like to tweak the frog to make setup a little easier, so I'll continue to work on that.

Part of the setup seems to be learning where the slop in the adjustment mechanism is, and how to account for it. For example I have figured out that when setting the depth I need to pull back on the blade, otherwise when I start to use the plane the blade will be forced back up through the throat and the plane will stop cutting. Similar idea with the side-to-side adjustment. Things like this are probably obvious to more seasoned hand plane users

Thanks,
Josh

[Josh Hutchinson]

Look at this project plane as a great learning experience even though you may not have the ending you had hoped for. A couple of things caught my attention: You had the plane bottom machined flat, but is it co-planar with the plane body and most importantly, the frog seat? Machining a plane (the second time) makes the sole thinner, which can result in flexing of the sole when the lever cap is installed. The lever cap is tensioned by pulling on the screw that is threaded into the frog, which can in-turn flex the bottom of the plane. The other potential problem is that you may have filed away too much of the chip breaker's leading edge, making it lose contact with the iron. That could be corrected by bending more curve into front of the chip breaker and then lightly filing it true.

You have invested quite a bit of time and some money in this plane, yet you are not at the point of satisfaction with it. I would answer that there are lots of good planes available that can be had for $50.00 or less. You may want to go that route before investing more in the one you have.

Thanks Mike. Some machining or lapping of the sole was necessary as a previous owner had used the plane as a hammer, leaving a series of dents over the sole. With the frog installed and everything tightened down the plane sits nice and flat, so I don't think the tension is causing it to flex. Whether the sole is co-planar is another story.

The plane is making nice shavings now, you can see a picture in my post from a few days ago. It still has some work required setting the frog, but it's getting there.

[Jim Koepke]

Part of the setup seems to be learning where the slop in the adjustment mechanism is, and how to account for it. For example I have figured out that when setting the depth I need to pull back on the blade, otherwise when I start to use the plane the blade will be forced back up through the throat and the plane will stop cutting. Similar idea with the side-to-side adjustment. Things like this are probably obvious to more seasoned hand plane users

Hi Josh,

This tells me your lever cap holding screw is loose. 1/16th of a turn can make a lot of difference. It needs to be tight enough to prevent the blade from moving during use and no tighter or it may impede the depth and lateral adjustments.

The slop or adjuster backlash is well known in the Stanley/Bailey planes. One solution is to set the plane so it isn't engaging in the work and then while moving the plane along a piece of scrap turn the adjuster to bring the blade into position to engage the wood. When a shaving first starts to develop stop adjusting the depth and check each side for the evenness of the shaving. At this point it is a bit of a back and forth between the lateral and the depth adjustment.

The blade should always be lowered to the work with the adjuster. If it is set too deep and then pulled back the pawl on the adjuster yoke is pushing agains the top of the slot on the chip breaker and there is a gap at the bottom. With the lever cap screw set properly the adjustment should hold for a while, but will slip eventually.

Once you get used to adjusting your blade it will become second nature.

jtk