Which gauge nails are closest to hot dipped galvanized finishing nails?

[Mark Bolton]

You will also likely find that if you actually were using hot dipped galvanized finish nails that your air nails likely wont have the same holding power because they are smooth (even if they are glue coated). We use to always set door jambs with hot dipped galvy naiils not for the corrosion resistance but because the rough texture on the nail from the hot dip would really grab the jamb and the framing allowing you to leave the finish nail very proud initially and you could use a bar to slide the jamb in and out before shimming. The jamb would stay put on the rough surface of the nail where as it would slide all around on a bright finish nail. If you had to pull one of these nails it was a chore.

You can pull a shot finish nail (regardless of the gauge) out of all but the most stubborn of woods very easily.

[Art Mann]

I don't agree that there is any benefit to using hammered in finish nails versus air driven nails in most cases, hot dipped or not. Neither do probably 80% or 90% of all finish carpenters now working in the United States. Air finishing nails and pins just aren't a problem if you do the job correctly. They reduce installation time by at least half.

[Mark Bolton]

I don't agree that there is any benefit to using hammered in finish nails versus air driven nails in most cases, hot dipped or not. Neither do probably 80% or 90% of all finish carpenters now working in the United States. Air finishing nails and pins just aren't a problem if you do the job correctly. They reduce installation time by at least half.

I never said there would be a problem. I said if he is accustomed to the holding power of hot dipped hand hammered nails, gun nails are not going to have the same holding power.

I have shot hundreds of thousands, of smooth, glue coated, ring shank, air driven, finish, framing, roofing, nails, staples, button caps, in everything from turn key ground up residential construction, to light and heavy commercial construction, to shop built wholesale fed to the construction industry, to custom furniture. We buy pneumatic fasteners by the gross that come in LTL freight. We shoot gun finish nails, staples, and pins all day long.

My point was, that someone coming from using hand driven finish nails where virtually ANYONE would be buying "bright" finish nails for interior use, but the OP said he has been buying HOT DIPPED GALVANIZED, (NOT BRIGHT), you will without any chance of a doubt, see a reduction in holding power between a bright nail and a hot dipped nail.

Do yourself a favor. Go buy a pound of bright finish nails, buy a pound of hot dipped galvanized finish nails, pull some of your gun nails out, and nail a bunch of stuff together. In something hard. I will guarantee you the hot dipped nail will be the hardest to pull and it may likely just shear off at the face of the wood.

That was my point. Ive shot together entire homes, entire kitchens, entire jobs, with pneumatics and nothing falls apart. But if the OP is use to the holding power of a hot dipped nail, it likely wont be what he's use to.

Now he will likely enjoy the convenience and speed, and shoot 3-4 times as many nails as he use to hand nail to make up for the difference ;-)

[Art Mann]

Do yourself a favor. Go buy a pound of bright finish nails, buy a pound of hot dipped galvanized finish nails, pull some of your gun nails out, and nail a bunch of stuff together. In something hard. I will guarantee you the hot dipped nail will be the hardest to pull and it may likely just shear off at the face of the wood.

I don't have to conduct any experiment to see how hot dip galvanized nails will hold. I live in a house constructed of Western Cedar. Hot dipped galvanized nails were used to attach the cedar to the studs. I have replaced thousands of them with galvanized screws over the years because they will extract themselves as the temperature and humidity changes. If I had used regular galvanized nails instead of hot dipped galvanized, I might have been replacing them the first summer I lived here instead of the second year. In that case, there would have been very little difference. The OP didn't say what he is building but the fact he is using PT lumber says at least part of it is outside. I wonder if he would be better off with screws too.

[mike sato]

You will also likely find that if you actually were using hot dipped galvanized finish nails that your air nails likely wont have the same holding power because they are smooth (even if they are glue coated). We use to always set door jambs with hot dipped galvy naiils not for the corrosion resistance but because the rough texture on the nail from the hot dip would really grab the jamb and the framing allowing you to leave the finish nail very proud initially and you could use a bar to slide the jamb in and out before shimming. The jamb would stay put on the rough surface of the nail where as it would slide all around on a bright finish nail. If you had to pull one of these nails it was a chore.

You can pull a shot finish nail (regardless of the gauge) out of all but the most stubborn of woods very easily.

Thanks for your info.

The holding power of air nails is why I was/am concerned with the diameter of air nails to be about the same as the hot dipped galvanized nails that I've used all my life till now. Actually, that's why I bought a 15 gauge air nail gun instead of a 16 gauge, for more holding power.

Bought the HF 18 gauge air nail gun because it was only $19.99 and figured I could use it for the 2 and 3 penny equivalent nails, though was just guessing at this usage at the time of purchase. Couldn't resist that bargain price . Can only buy from Harbor Freight when we are on our Las Vegas vacations since there are no HF's where we live.

Thanks,
Mike

[Rich Engelhardt]

You will also likely find that if you actually were using hot dipped galvanized finish nails that your air nails likely wont have the same holding power because they are smooth (even if they are glue coated).

I tend to agree w/that. I used - or I should say I tried to use - my 15 ga nailer to nail some Red Oak flooring. It didn't hold worth spit. I drilled and sunk some regular finish nails & they held like glue.

[Jim Becker]

When using a pneumatic nailer for "more structural" work, there's no rule that says you have to shoot every nail in perfectly straight an perpendicular to the face of the material you're fastening. Varying angles can add some additional holding power. Honestly, I use this technique with 23 gage (headless) pins, too. But yea...screws are the thing when real holding power is necessary.

[mike sato]

The OP didn't say what he is building but the fact he is using PT lumber says at least part of it is outside. I wonder if he would be better off with screws too.

Hi Art,
I use screws anytime the head size does not require finish nail holes. I hardly use common nails anymore. I'm using ceramic coated screws that are rated for treated lumber and stainless steel screws for redwood. Only star drive screws and never Phillips drive screws.

I bought a Hitachi impact driver but that lasted only about 9 months and stopped working. Then I bought a Bosch variable speed impact driver and it has been working great for years. I like the small battery on the Bosh impact driver and the charge was more than sufficient when I used it to build two storage sheds.

bosch-impact-drivers-ids181-02-64_300.jpg
I doubt that I will ever buy a framing nail gun and will just use screws for holding power when finish nail hole size is not a concern.
Thanks,
Mike

[mike sato]

When using a pneumatic nailer for "more structural" work, there's no rule that says you have to shoot every nail in perfectly straight an perpendicular to the face of the material you're fastening. Varying angles can add some additional holding power. Honestly, I use this technique with 23 gage (headless) pins, too. But yea...screws are the thing when real holding power is necessary.

There's a video on youtube where the guy recommends angling the nail gun slightly according to the grain of the wood being attached, to help prevent nails from following the grain and curving out of the wood. Here's a link to that video. The discussion of the grain of the wood starts at 1:30 into the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXIH2c_1PzE

Thanks,
Mike

[Jim Becker]

Mike, I was reminded recently in a very clear way about fasteners following the grain sometimes...the finger still hurts.

[mike sato]

Mike, I was reminded recently in a very clear way about fasteners following the grain sometimes...the finger still hurts.

Man, a small splinter going into a finger even 1/8" deep can hurt a bunch. Can't imagine how much it would hurt to have a gun nail going into a finger or a thumb 1/4" to 1/2" deep. Could even hit a bone I guess.

Going to try REAL HARD to remember to keep my holding hand's fingers more than nail length away.

Thanks,
Mike

[Jim Becker]

It only just broke the skin, but...yea...it hurt. It was my fault, too...rushed which is something I don't normally do.

[Mark Bolton]

When using a pneumatic nailer for "more structural" work, there's no rule that says you have to shoot every nail in perfectly straight an perpendicular to the face of the material you're fastening. Varying angles can add some additional holding power. Honestly, I use this technique with 23 gage (headless) pins, too. But yea...screws are the thing when real holding power is necessary.

Late to get back. We were on a rare residential install a while back that was homeonwer built (not smashing homeowners but this guy was one of the ones that gives them a bad rap) and the studs were all over the place. There were no 16's.. some were 16, then one at 20, then one at 30, one at 12... it was a total nightmare.

Funny part when reading about "toe nailing finish nails"... he HO was installing pine T&G on this cathedral ceiling in one of the typical soaring log homes with the wide open "great room" with the balcony from the master that looks down onto the living room area.

The HO told me that he had given up trying to hit (his own) framing and he was more than comfortable with a bit of construction adhesive on the back of a board (a few dobs) and "toe nailing" his finish nails into the drywall. Mind you he had asked us to fabricate 13/16" solid pre-finished trim where there is no amount of toe nailing that is going to draw a 13/16" x 5.5" piece of base, tight to the drywall (that is wavier than an ocean wave at high tide).

Different strokes for different folks. If my fasteners dont hold the job tight shot straight, Im either using the wrong fastener, or I landed myself on the wrong job. lol.

In the end we told him that when he had a gathering he'd better be sitting up on the balcony as opposed to on the couch below so he could watch the T&G boards peel off and cleave the guests below.

[Mark Bolton]

I don't have to conduct any experiment to see how hot dip galvanized nails will hold. I live in a house constructed of Western Cedar. Hot dipped galvanized nails were used to attach the cedar to the studs. I have replaced thousands of them with galvanized screws over the years because they will extract themselves as the temperature and humidity changes. If I had used regular galvanized nails instead of hot dipped galvanized, I might have been replacing them the first summer I lived here instead of the second year. In that case, there would have been very little difference. The OP didn't say what he is building but the fact he is using PT lumber says at least part of it is outside. I wonder if he would be better off with screws too.

That may well be fine Art, but simply no one installs cedar siding with screws and if they do they are trying to overcome a moisture imbalance issue. More than likely there is a moisture issue behind the siding that is causing the problem and it has nothing to do with the fasteners at all.

I cant count the times I have seen cedar claps walk nails out of a south facing wall. The siding gets wet on the exterior face, absorbs moisture, and cups inward, dries, grabs ahold of the nail, and curls to the dry face (out), and walks the nail out a touch. This happens once a day with morning dew and moisture, until all the nails are sticking 2" out off the face of the wall. Then you have the issues where the back side of the siding is moist and it absorbs moisture all night (swelling) and then dries each day in the sun. Same issue occurs. Fasteners (nails) are jacked off the face of the wall.

Screws help without a doubt unless the underlying problem is enough to cause the siding to split/break which I have also seen.

You are exactly right though. No nail whatsoever is going to hold back the forces of moving cedar siding. The solution is to reduce the movement to a level that is within the capacity of a nail ;-)

[Jim Becker]

Mark, having something solid to nail into is pretty important, no question. I frequently face challenges with that in "my old house" which had some pretty, um...unique...framing work done by folks contracted by the previous owners in the 1950s and 1750s sections. Even the 1980s addition (great room with barn beams and lofted ceiling) has a lot of questionable "spacing". I recently did some work in the kitchen to repair a plumbing issue in the ceiling and then make some changes. I actually had to "draw a map" of the wall I was working on so that when I went back to mount a pot rack and the cabinetry below, I could insure that I was hitting solid wood. It was "amazing spacing", as it were...