Dan’s Arkansas Black whetstone- OMG

[Malcolm Schweizer]

All the talk lately of oil stones made me itch for a proper one. I was two steps from getting a translucent Arkansas stone and instead got the Dan’s Black Arkansas. By the way, I got it on eBay from taylortoolworksllc for half what Dan’s was selling them for. (Which is still $200, but I got the huge 12”x3” one)

I used dish detergent and water instead of oil, just because I heard it works well. I’m sold on that- much less mess than oil and did a great job. Folks- you know I’m a hard-core “stoner” and I’m very much a waterstone guy, but I wanted to give a really fine oil stone a try. Wow. Just. Wow. I am telling you- better edge than on a Chosera 10k. The edge is more refined and polished. I never would have believed it. It is insane. I am loving this stone. I love natural stones for gouges because they are less prone to divots, but this is now going to be my go-to finisher for chisels and planes too. In fact, I’m goin to get a medium Arkansas and keep these two benchside for touch-ups. I never imagined I would be saying that about an Arkansas stone. I used to mountain climb and kayak a lot in Arkansas, and every gift shop sold these crappy little Arkansas stones in cheesy cedar boxes. I assumed that was what they all were like. Now that I have tried a REAL Arkansas stone, I’m sold.

[John C Cox]

Sounds like a real dandy there.

I have a distinct feeling that all your experience with water stones and various other sharpening paraphernalia has left you considerably more experienced about getting great work out of these sort of stones... For instance - I have an older ceramic stone that just wouldn't cut right about 10 years ago... It was relegated to the Drawer of Shame... After learning about water stones - I "flattened" it with diamond plate (which coincidentally removed the metal glaze) and Sha-Zam... I am very curious about Dad's old stones... Which have been used for 50+ years and never really cleaned or lapped and now cut really really slow...

[Patrick Chase]

I used dish detergent and water instead of oil, just because I heard it works well. I’m sold on that- much less mess than oil and did a great job. Folks- you know I’m a hard-core “stoner” and I’m very much a waterstone guy, but I wanted to give a really fine oil stone a try. Wow. Just. Wow. I am telling you- better edge than on a Chosera 10k. The edge is more refined and polished. I never would have believed it. It is insane.

Dan's translucent and black Arks come very finely lapped, which allows them to cut very smoothly out of the box. I don't think that their stones are any better than, say, Norton's, but to get the same sort of edge off of a Norton Ark you would either need to use it and break it in for a fair amount of time, or lap it in a manner similar to Dan's. I've been able to get similar results from a Norton stone by lapping up to 1200# SiC slurry (SiC powder is difficult to use directly at those grits - you have to pre-mix it into a slurry with a very thin lubricant like mineral spirits or VM&P Naptha first, then use that).

With that said, my Dan's finishers (translucent and black) don't leave as sharp an edge as my best waterstones. In particular I've compared them to the Sigma 13k, Imanishi 10k, and yes, I finally decided to give the Cho 10K a go just to see why everybody was so excited. The Arks produce an extremely smooth edge, probably due to the more "rounded" nature of Silicate abrasive particles, but it isn't as sharp as measured by thread-cutting or similar tests.

Don't get me wrong: Arks leave a plenty good edge for woodworking. The sorts of differences we're talking about here (either way) are unlikely to matter for most uses. The only thing to really keep an eye on is steel compatibility - the edge quality from the Ark goes downhill rapidly if you use it with anything that contains any but the finest non-Ferrite carbides. PM-V11 is probably the most wear resistant steel in common use that is reasonably compatible with Arks (it contains lots of Cr carbides, but the grain structure is so fine that the edge quality isn't impacted).

Whatever you do don't flatten or otherwise muck with that stone's surface. If you do it will take a bunch of work to get it back to where it is.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Dan's translucent and black Arks come very finely lapped, which allows them to cut very smoothly out of the box. I don't think that their stones are any better than, say, Norton's, but to get the same sort of edge off of a Norton Ark you would either need to use it and break it in for a fair amount of time, or lap it in a manner similar to Dan's. I've been able to get similar results from a Norton stone by lapping up to 1200# SiC slurry (SiC powder is difficult to use directly at those grits - you have to pre-mix it into a slurry with a very thin lubricant like mineral spirits or VM&P Naptha first, then use that).

With that said, my Dan's finishers (translucent and black) don't leave as sharp an edge as my best waterstones. In particular I've compared them to the Sigma 13k, Imanishi 10k, and yes, I finally decided to give the Cho 10K a go just to see why everybody was so excited. The Arks produce an extremely smooth edge, probably due to the more "rounded" nature of Silicate abrasive particles, but it isn't as sharp as measured by thread-cutting or similar tests.

Don't get me wrong: Arks leave a plenty good edge for woodworking. The sorts of differences we're talking about here (either way) are unlikely to matter for most uses. The only thing to really keep an eye on is steel compatibility - the edge quality from the Ark goes downhill rapidly if you use it with anything that contains any but the finest non-Ferrite carbides. PM-V11 is probably the most wear resistant steel in common use that is reasonably compatible with Arks (it contains lots of Cr carbides, but the grain structure is so fine that the edge quality isn't impacted).

Whatever you do don't flatten or otherwise muck with that stone's surface. If you do it will take a bunch of work to get it back to where it is.

well actually I did not like this stone at first, so I sanded it to 2000 grit,, buffed it with a 3m pad that was worn out, and then polished the backs of some plane irons, and that smoothed out the finish on this stone- that’s when it really started to work.

I believe (and always have) that the advantage of a natural whetstone is that since it doesn’t make a slurry, it leaves a very refined edge. The slurry of a waterstone polishes well, but can also work against you by (microscopically) rounding the edge IF you don’t have a proper technique, which I believe needs to include finishing on a pull stroke.

We could talk all day about these things. I’m not here to say which is the better choice. A Chosera 10k works a LOT faster than this stone. For every plus there is always a minus. I personally found that this stone ultimately left a better edge. There is a different technique to an oil stone- a lighter touch and slower motion seems to achieve better results.

[Ryan Mooney]

I do love my Sigma 13k.. but its a luxury product and requires a bit of finesse in use.. and doesn't work for everything (for me).

Seriously though Malcom if you do ANY carving (or gouge or molding plane) work the translucent slips from TFWW I pointed you at are similarly ooolalala. Yes I'm totally enabling here Please don't get in trouble though

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I do love my Sigma 13k.. but its a luxury product and requires a bit of finesse in use.. and doesn't work for everything (for me).

Seriously though Malcom if you do ANY carving (or gouge or molding plane) work the translucent slips from TFWW I pointed you at are similarly ooolalala. Yes I'm totally enabling here Please don't get in trouble though

(In trance) Must. Have. Stones. Must. Sharpen. Things.

[Ryan Mooney]

(In trance) Must. Have. Stones. Must. Sharpen. Things.

Sharpening intensifies...

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I need to add to this thread that it's not at all a gloat; It is in fact the opposite- me swallowing my pride and admitting I misjudged Arkansas stones. I do sharpen chef knives on the side to support my addiction, but this purchase was mostly experimental. I wanted a hard stone for machetes,gouges, and things that are hard on waterstones. I also just wanted to play around with a really good Arkansas stone. I switched to waterstones years ago, and now that I have "honed" my sharpening skills (see what I did there?), I wanted to try a really good oil stone. The 12" was ideal for machetes and large chef knives, so I sprung for it.

Does this mean I am ditching waterstones? NO WAY! I love the speed of waterstones- especially when flattening backs. I will still use them, but I am really loving the ease of use with this stone at the workbench. I always disliked oil stones because of the mess and oil-soaked rags always lying about. Now that I know you can use soap and water in the place of oil, I'm like a kid with a new toy.

I also need to add my disclaimer here- if it gets your tools/knives sharp enough, and you like it, then good enough. I'm not that guy who thinks you must follow his way of doing things, as there are multiple ways to achieve a fine edge. Oil, water, scary sharp- they all get tools "sharp enough" or better. The rest for me is finesse and playing around with sharpening- except there is a noticeable difference in using a really well-honed tool versus a "sharp enough" honed tool, especially on figured woods. I do admit, however, to being a sharpaholic. I will buy a stone just to try it out. I post my findings here to share knowledge and personal experience and not to force my way of doing things. When I was a kid, my uncle always brought us Victironox knives from Switzerland, and my grandfather gave us some oil stones and taught us to sharpen. That started a competition between myself and my two brothers. Sharpening was a rite of passage, and it just grew from there. Goofy as it is, it's kind of a hobby that pairs well with the woodworking hobby.

[Matthew Hutchinson477]

I always disliked oil stones because of the mess and oil-soaked rags always lying about. Now that I know you can use soap and water in the place of oil, I'm like a kid with a new toy.

That's a potential game changer for me as well. Never heard of the idea but I gravitated away from oil stones in part because they made a mess that was harder to clean up than soap/water. Thanks for posting about this. I have an old Washita stone that I'll have to experiment with.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

That's a potential game changer for me as well. Never heard of the idea but I gravitated away from oil stones in part because they made a mess that was harder to clean up than soap/water. Thanks for posting about this. I have an old Washita stone that I'll have to experiment with.

You need to clean the stone well first- I saw a recommendation to soak in simple green or similar degreaser. Take a squeeze bottle and in my case in a 4oz bottle I put about 1/4” of dish detergent in the bottom and filled it with water. I wet the stone first with water only, then squeeze a little bit of the diluted solution on it. It feels like oil on the surface. I found at first I was using too much detergent and started putting just a small squirt of the diluted solution and got better results.

[Ryan Mooney]

You can also clean older stones with a nice simmer in some water and dawn dishwashing liquid (dawn really cuts the grease nicely) if its past the simple green soak level.

I took this as another person who likes to play with fun toys having another fun toy to play with.

[Warren West]

You can lap one side with a diamond plate to keep it slightly coarser and fast cutting ala Larry Williams style and leave the other to burnish away and become a smooth finisher and you'll have two stones in one.