Talk to me about saws

[Patrick Chase]

Jim; I applied a 15 degrees fleam angle.

Are you talking about fleam or slope here?

The reason I ask is because the gullet volume increase you cited in post 6 is most easily attained by increasing slope. Isaac covers this a bit in the articles on his site (which I know you've read).

A rip saw with 15 degrees of slope can be a very nice thing IMO.

There is no such thing as a rip saw with 15 degrees of fleam, because that's a crosscut saw by definition.

[Jim Koepke]

Are you talking about fleam or slope here?

The reason I ask is because the gullet volume increase you cited in post 6 is most easily attained by increasing slope. Isaac covers this a bit in the articles on his site (which I know you've read).

A rip saw with 15 degrees of slope can be a very nice thing IMO.

There is no such thing as a rip saw with 15 degrees of fleam, because that's a crosscut saw by definition.

That was kind of my thought on this but thought it maybe better to just let it go.

jtk

[Steve Kaminska]

I spent this week digging most of my saws out of the abyss that is my garage...

IMG_0336.jpg


From right to left (since SMC flipped my picture for some reason) we have:

An obvious recent Nicholson, 9 tpi, with an absolutely terrible handle. This saw is still reasonably sharp, I'm going to try it as is.

A warranted superior with 8 tpi, this handle has wheat grain carving, and comes the closest to fitting my hand.

An actual Disston! (Yay!) Except according to the Disstonian Institute, this one was made after the company was sold. 5 1/2 tpi, the wheat motif on the handle is carved.

A Craftsman warranted superior. Plywood handle, with painted on wheat. Also 8 tpi.

Last is the most interesting, it has a skewed back, and 11 tpi. I thought the handle might have been homemade, until I found a similar saw on the Disstonian Institute which was labelled as a pruning saw.

I think what I have is a timeline of my wife's grandfather's home improvement purchases. Every ten years or so, his saw would "get dull" and he would go get a new one. Being a child of the Depression, he never threw anything away. I'm going to de-rust all of them, and start learning to sharpen on the Disston. I figure with the biggest teeth, it will be the easiest.

[Mike Allen1010]

Hi Steve,


You've asked a great question that is super relevant to many people interested in hand tool woodworking: "how much does it really matter to have a handsaw that is specifically designed/sharpened/tuned for specific task, and will such a saw make a significant difference in speed, accuracy and the quality of the sawn surface?"


Short answer is unequivocally yes! Using a saw, that has been specifically designed/sharpened/tuned/set up for a specific task makes a huge difference in speed/accuracy/finish quality. Improvement in performance for us all like this is likely significantly more than one would expect, especially if you've never had the opportunity to try one.


I've been a hand tool woodworker for 20 years (no tablesaw, bandsaw for ripping/resawing), but I wouldn't ask you to take my word for it. The more persuasive evidence I would offer is the broad range of different, specifically designed/configured saws used by preindustrial woodworker's. Before we get to the specifics/
configurations of saws in the typical saw nest of the preindustrial woodworker, I would suggest that at the risk of sounding like a complete blowhard/know it all, perhaps a bit of woodworking history is helpful:


Preindustrial woodworker's made their living building the homes, ships, commercial buildings and furniture of the preindustrial era. Their livelihood depended upon their ability to quickly/accurately/cost-effectively produce desired results, and not surprisingly they were extremely discerning purchasers/users of hand saws.


These hand tool woodworker's represented virtually 100% of the market from 1840 and 1945, and their demand for the best possible tools needed to feed their families drove the development and manufacture of arguably the best hand saws ever produced. I know that probably sounds like some kind of "nostalgic over appreciation of the past", but I would submit is absolutely evidence-based.


The technologies/techniques used to produce saws during the Golden era of 1840 – 1945, are largely, if not completely, absent from full-size hand saws manufactured since 1950. These include: double taper ground plates that are thinner at the top line and the toe versus along the tooth line, hand tensioning with hammer and anvil of saw plates to produce straight, stiff plates, the use of high-quality spring steel specifically manufactured for the purpose and expert sharpening/setting/tuning by experienced professionals.


Of course the specifics for preindustrial workers varied by profession, but in general they included: 4 – 5 PPI, 26 – 28" rip saw, 26", 7 – 8 PPI crosscut saw for dimensioning raw lumber and 24-26" ,10 – 12 PPI for finished crosscuts. Beyond these 3 basic saws, individual trades added additional saws specific to their specific needs; like 5 PPI crosscuts for timber framers, 7 – 8 PPI rip saws for cabinet maker/finish carpenter's etc.


Sorry for the soapbox – all of this is to say I'm confident you'll be surprisingly pleased how much using an appropriate handsaw improves the fun and productivity of your hand tool woodworking. I strongly encourage you to learn to sharpen vintage saws for dedicated tasks. A helpful first step might be to purchase an "best in class" example from someone that like Pete Taran (vintage saws.com) or Darrell Weir (old saws restored.com), to give your reference for what you're shooting for.


Important disclaimer: IMHO, my argument about the distinct, unique advantages of vintage saws doesn't apply to backed, joinery saws currently manufactured by many of the excellent toolmakers working today, because these attributes (like taper grinding and hand tensioning, etc.) aren't necessary/relevant.


Sorry if my comment sound like a rant. I'm particularly passionate about this subject because discovering the benefits of premium, vintage saws specifically sharpened/tuned/configured for specific tasks is the major reason I realized that woodworking was possible without a shop full of expensive, stationary power tools.


There are many others here on SMC that are far more knowledgeable on the subject that I am and I hope they'll comment, likely in a far more cogent way than me.


All the best, Mike