Lapsharp

[Paul Comi]

Martin asked me to post my opinions and experience with the Lapsharp sharpening system I bought this year.

After getting into hand tools over the past year and not having any sharpening experience or sharpening tools whatsoever, I spent some time evaluating my options before buying the Lapsharp. What I learned was that I could a) spend several hundred dollars investing in water or oil stones of varying grits plus get a honing jig and learn how to sharpen tools by hand, b) buy a Tormek and end up buying all the extra holders and tool rests which quickly adds up c) buy a Veritas MK II powered unit or d) buy a Lapsharp.

The strongest praise seemed to come from those who had bought a MKII system. I heard that the unit was pretty much idiot proof and resulted in very sharp tools. As I learned more, I came to the conclusion that the MKII was essentially a motorized scary sharp system in which you take tools progressively through finer grits of adhesive on a very flat surface and end up with mirror like finished super sharp chisels and plane blades. As I looked at the MKII, I started hearing comments about something called a Lapsharp and it was only for the fact that I didn't have cash in hand to buy a MKII or I wouldn't have even investigated it. By the way, I have 2 kids under 7 who demand my time when I'm not working so the idea of spending hours to sharpen any tools was something I decided was not going to be practical. That ruled out using stones although I've since learned that people with well refined skills can sharpen and touch up their tools very quickly. I just figured that if I was going to spend even a few hundred dollars to get into sharpening tools and possibly end up getting into a powered system, I might as well go straight to a powered system and save money in the long run.

I found information about the Lapsharp at The Japan Woodworker and to be honest I thought the unit looked like an outdated record player-like the first one I got as a kid. Had I not been encouraged to learn more about it and had I not heard such good things from a few people who already had them and who I respected very much I would never have bought one. The reasons I was encouraged to look into the lapsharp included a) the only powered unit with a reversible motor b) unlike the MKII it has the ability to use lubricant and even continuous cooling solution with a recirculating pump c) a larger platen surface that allows you to flatten the soles of planes (I've done up to a #5 so far).

When I saw that the lapsharp unit was $599 I gagged. But, this was one time when I figured that sharp tools when doing hand woodworking was going to be very important both for me to enjoy the process and also to improve. I looked at the tormek and by the time you add the various jigs to the unit its up at the same kind of money unless you're fortunate to find one used or if you can find one somehow on a really good sale. What turned me off on the tormek was that unlike the lapsharp that is a flat disk surface, the tormek is a polishing wheel. The guys I heard from with tormeks told me that they sharpened up to a point with the tormek and then took their tools to their stones to get really sharp and in some cases did other things. Based on what others were telling me the tormek was not a complete solution and to spend those kind of dollars on a system that I'd still end up going to stones to finish with wasn't something I wanted to do.

But what really helped me make my mind up was to go to my local Rockler who has since stoppped carrying them (nd now Woodcraft does I believe) and inspect the unit. Firstly, this is a hefty, solid, well made unit. A picture of it does it a disservice because the platen, body, and hardware of this thing are well made and give you the impression that it is a quality unit. Secondly, to operate the unit, a key feature with the unit is a deadman's pedal. You can turn the unit on, but it won't actually rotate until you press the footpedal down. That enables you to hold your tool in position on the abrasive disk and then activate the unit. Since you never take your hands off the tool, you have more control. I have since heard many MKII people saying that they want to get a deadman's pedal for their units for that reason. and by the way, the lapsharp offers sharpening abrasives below 1 micron which exceeds what the MKII offers. I find that once I get my tools initially flat and sharp, I just need to touch them up with 1 or maybe 2 of the final disks and I'm ready to go. Its only when you initially take your tools that don't have flat backs and have chips, etc that you will spend some time going through the entire sharpening regime of 5 or so disks from rough to fine sharpening abrasives.

Chisels and plane blades are held at the proper angle either by hand against an angled tool bar or clamped into a holding jig and held against the tool bar. I found that on very narrow chisels, I wasn't happy with the tool bar set up until I made an insert to give more support for my tool holder and since then its worked fine.

Since the lapsharp has a reversible motor, you're able to sharpen and flatten things evenly that you can't on the MKII like knives which have a bevel on both sides. Try laying a knife on the right side on a MK II and the blade will be digging into the rotating disk, but by changing the rotation of the Lapsharp disk, you're in business.

I've found that this is especially useful when you're taking a plane blade in rough condition and getting it flat and usable. I even use it to sharpen my scraper blades.

The lapsharp is an evolving piece of equipment and as time goes on, they come up with more value added features to expand its usefulness. There is an accessory that enables you to sharpen your planer and jointer blades which I don't think I'll buy, but there's a jig for holding carving tools and lathe tools that I'd like to get. The system comes with a dvd explaining how to sharpen your tools and as a complete neophyte at sharpening, I had some questions so I contacted the manufacturer. Don Naples, the guy who developed this system is a great guy and is very patient with newbies like me. For a guy like me who had literally never sharpened a tool in my life, I am now able to dissasemble a plane like a block plane, flatten the sole, the go through the grits flattening the back and sharpening the bevel through to mirror finish and have a well tuned tool. Considering the short learning curve to get sharp tools and the versatility and quality of the system, I think it is worth the money and if you're looking into a sharpening system, its worth investigating. There you go Martin! If you want to go straight to the Lapsharp site to read about it, google woodartistry or lapsharp and trust me, if you contact Don Naples, he'll answer your questions. Tell him I said hello

[Michael Perata]

I bought my Lapsharp about two years ago and agree with your comments.

I practiced using a 2.5" Stanley chisel I used way back when framing houses.

Took me about 30 minutes to get the back so flat and polished that I could see a virtually undistorted image of a reflected nighttime moon.

It is a hefty investment but does the job very nicely.

[Martin Shupe]

Paul and Michael,

Thanks for your comments. I think I want one of these, so now I only have to convince my SWMBO that it is worth the expense. Perhaps if I finish a few more "projects in work", she may be persuaded. I'll keep you posted. Perhaps I will be able to see one of these in action at the Dallas woodworking show in December.

[Paul Comi]

I bought my Lapsharp about two years ago and agree with your comments.

I practiced using a 2.5" Stanley chisel I used way back when framing houses.

Took me about 30 minutes to get the back so flat and polished that I could see a virtually undistorted image of a reflected nighttime moon.

It is a hefty investment but does the job very nicely.

Michael, when I was writing up my comments, I ended up deleting one sentence that applies to your post. On a recent #5 1/2 plane I bought from another woodworker before I tried sharpening it myself, I just couldn't dial in a usable shaving so I began to flatten and sharpen the plane blade. Something just wasnt' right and as I really paid close attention both the sole and the blade were not flat. The back of the plane blade had to be flattened more than any blade I own and even with the most aggressive grit it was taking too long. This is a comment I've heard from other Lapsharp users that they wish there were more rough grits for the initial refurbishing work. I guess you could get a psa disk in a rough grit and buy an extra platen, but in these cases my 12" disk sander works well. I am careful to not overheat the blade or sole but it does the hard work of getting the parts in the ballpark so I can go through the grits on the Lapsharp. Also, I've found it speeds things up when working on a blade that I have never sharpened to flatten the back and sharpen the bevel at the same time using each grit rather than going all the way through the grits with the back and then starting all over with the bevel. My .02

[Paul Comi]

Paul and Michael,

Thanks for your comments. I think I want one of these, so now I only have to convince my SWMBO that it is worth the expense. Perhaps if I finish a few more "projects in work", she may be persuaded. I'll keep you posted. Perhaps I will be able to see one of these in action at the Dallas woodworking show in December.

If you do small projects like jewelry boxes with precisely fitting parts, you can use the Lapsharp as a disk sander. Tell her you're getting several tools in one-that's why they're more expensive :-)

[John Edwards]

First off I own the Lap Sharp also.
Have talked with Michelle and Don of (WoodArtistry.com) at length about the various nuances of the unit. The jigs, adhesive disc’s etc.
The one thing that stands out is the total commitment to quality and customer service they provide. Have a question? The answer is but a call away.
Have special steel? Such as in a jointer or planer knife? They will suggest the correct papers to use with it. My Holtey planes are made with a D2 steel iron. Much harder then the typical steel used in a Stanley or LN etc. They helped in identifying what papers I should use. In fact on several instances they have talked me out of buying an accessory that I didn’t need.
Did you ever get a call from a company asking how you liked the product? Get a newsletter sent to your home from Tormek? Send you updates on the owner’s manuals? Or even a whole new manual? Include a DVD with a new jig?

The following comments are aimed at the Tormeks. Why you ask? Because price wise it is the closest sharpening system to the Lap Sharp. Some love them. Others don’t.
Not meant as a bash but (my) real life experiences. The basic unit will sharpen chisels and plane blades, to a degree. After that the jigs start to come into play. And some of them are not cheap to buy or easy to learn. As Paul has already stated.

Sorry I’ve tried three Tormeks. Was shown how to use some of the jigs by the US distributor. Always got a kick out of the paper-cutting demo. My 3-year-old Faber ware steak knives will do that.
Try reshaping an A2 turning tool on a Tormek. How come they offer not only a strop and stropping compound but also an accessory stropping wheel? Yes the profiles are useful in some cases. Does that seem to suggest that the tools are not coming off the grinding wheel as sharp as they should be? But then the jig you just used to put that nice edge on the tool doesn’t work on the strop....... Freehand baby and likely a rolled edge. Not to mention that you just preformed another step in the sharpening process.
How about water all over the workbench? Then what do you do with all the swarf sludge? Not down my drain you don’t. If you don’t dump it quick enough it turns to concrete. Like the sweet aroma of mold? Try letting a Tormek wheel sit wet for a spell?
So at best the Tormek is nothing more then a slow speed, water-cooled grinding wheel. Which by the way becomes smaller in diameter as it wears away. There goes your presets or witness marks for repeatability. Without the truing jig you cannot be sure that the face of the wheel is square to its axis. Only parallel to the jig support arm. Which doesn’t mean your plane blade is going to be ground square across it’s width. Because the jig for that is designed to be square to the axis. NOT the stones face. Did I mention the wheel diameter? Every time you true the wheel the diameter is reduced.....
Ok, rant off......

Don and his group of engineers spent a lot of time studying the shortcomings of many types of sharpening methods and systems. They did a great job of trying to overcome many of these issues.
The closest sharpening tool that comes close to the concept is the Lee Valley MarkII.
Did you know that the plates on the Lap Sharp are dead flat? Machined not cast. How about the fact that you can switch from one grade of paper to another without changing you’re setting. Try that with a MarkII.
LV uses vibration dampeners on there mounting feet. Then the infamous belt drive. That’s another story.
Lap Sharp uses the simplest method. Sheer Mass and high quality components control vibration. The motors are rated for continuous duty and are reversible, again as Paul has pointed out. Look at the amp ratings. You will see the Lap Sharp motor is rated higher. Thus providing more torque as you press down on whatever it is you are trying to sharpen.

Is the Lap Sharp perfect? No. Paul pointed out several shortcomings. Are the people who manufacture it trying to fix the shortcomings? Absolutely.
Case in point. From the Japan Woodworker I purchased the turning tool/carving tool jig. Right when it first came out. As a side note I feel the jigs are very reasonably priced for what you are getting. The Lap Sharp folks let me know that they made an improvement to the jig and offered to help me update it. Months after I had already bought it. That is customer SERVICE.
Through the rumor mill I understand that the Lap Sharp folks will be offering a couple of new jigs. Both of which are designed to address the problems that Paul mentioned. Small tool holding as an example.

Do I like the Lap Sharp? Yes, you can go from flea market grungy to surgical sharp without changing anything but the platter that holds the paper.
Like mirrors for the sides and soles of your planes? Want a dead flat chisel back or plane sole? Want to throw away your razor and shave freehand? Buy a Lap Sharp.

Be honest. Do the math with other motorized systems. You will find the Lap Sharp to be a better value.

Or look at it this way. While you are flattening your water stones or creating a slurry (careful not to contaminate the next grit) I’ll have my iron sharpened and be back to work.

Ok, Ok enough. It’s just a darn good product. You folks on the West coast have it made. Lap Sharp provides demo’s and workshops. Us east coasters have to rely on word of mouth or rants and raves like mine.........

Enjoy.
John Edwards

[Mike Henderson]

I guess I'm in a very different league than most of the people posting in this thread. I can't imagine spending $400-$600 for a basic sharpening machine, then spend even more on jigs to go with the machine. There are so many other things I could do with $1,000 before I'd even consider spending it on one of these setups.

I've always used waterstones and get very satisfactory results, both in the time it takes and the sharpness of the tools. The biggest problem is with new tools when you have to flatten the backs, but that's a one time operation. Once you prepare your tools the first time, sharpening takes very little time.

I could see buying one of these tools to be shared by a group of people (maybe a school or a large woodworking business) but for an individual I can’t imagine it.<O</O
<O</O

Mike<O</O

[Paul Comi]

I guess I'm in a very different league than most of the people posting in this thread. I can't imagine spending $400-$600 for a basic sharpening machine, then spend even more on jigs to go with the machine. There are so many other things I could do with $1,000 before I'd even consider spending it on one of these setups.

I've always used waterstones and get very satisfactory results, both in the time it takes and the sharpness of the tools. The biggest problem is with new tools when you have to flatten the backs, but that's a one time operation. Once you prepare your tools the first time, sharpening takes very little time.

I could see buying one of these tools to be shared by a group of people (maybe a school or a large woodworking business) but for an individual I can’t imagine it.<O</O
<O</O

Mike<O</O

I got my Lapsharp for $599 with free shipping as I recall and it came with the jig that is used to sharpen blades and chisels. I'm not trying to argue or be contentious, but there's no way its $1,000. I was asked to post my thoughts on the unit and share my experience so I'm no advocate and nor do I have any vested interest, but how much did you pay for your collection of stones, jigs and implements to sharpen so far? I looked at getting set up with stones and jigs to do sharpening by hand and as I recall it was going to be at least $300. How long are those stones going to last before they wear out and have to be replaced? I honestly don't know because I don't have experience with them, but with the lapsharp, now that I have the unit, all I am going to pay for are replacement disks and those are long wearing, washable and pretty inexpensive. A person who is disciplined and driven to learn how to sharpen by hand is a hand tool person for sure. I am a hybrid power and hand tool guy and I want surgical sharp in a very short period of time so I can spend my time woodworking and not sharpening. The only way someone is going to spend more than what I spent is by buying the jigs to sharpen their planer blades. Try sharpening those by hand. Personally, I'll pay the $35 for a new set and chuck the old ones away. I see the lapsharp as a one time sharpening investment and unless you have already spent several hundred dollars on another sharpening method, you should consider cutting to the chase and getting something that will give you expert scary sharp results without the learning curve associated with hand sharpening methods.

[Mike Henderson]

I checked on the Lee Valley web site. Here are the current figures for some waterstones:

Basic stone set (800 and 4000) $41.00
8000 stone $46.50
Norton flattening stone $23.00 (found on a different site)
Total $110.50

Throw in Lee Valley's top of the line honing jig - the MkII $48.59 (and a lower cost one could be more than sufficient)
Total $159.00

Mike

[Paul Comi]

I checked on the Lee Valley web site. Here are the current figures for some waterstones:

Basic stone set (800 and 4000) $41.00
8000 stone $46.50
Norton flattening stone $23.00 (found on a different site)
Total $110.50

Throw in Lee Valley's top of the line honing jig - the MkII $48.59 (and a lower cost one could be more than sufficient)
Total $159.00

Mike

When I asked others who sharpen by hand what they used, I got dizzy with the options between oil and water, types of stones (india, etc) and in the end what really made me willing to splurge on the Lapsharp was one single thought that if I eventually lost interest in woodworking, my investment in a Lapsharp would still be at least partially recoverable. Even if I used the system all year I know I could sell it for at bare minimum for $350 because they don't discount the system. So, I figured I was able to jump into perfectly sharp tools with a radically short learning curve and still have something of value in the event that I had to sell it. I look at all my tools that way now. If I bought even a couple hundred dollars of sharpening elements and ended up having to sell them, I doubt I'd be able to get very much for them. But, there's a market for both and they're suited for different kinds of users. The lapsharp user as was mentioned may even be somebody who uses special grits and sharpens carbide tools with a continuous flow of lubrication. To me, that means that the resale of the unit has a lot of value because its not just of interest to hobby woodworkers.

See Martin - something tells me you knew you were starting something up :-)

[Mike Henderson]

Every time I buy a woodworking tool, I tell my wife the same thing. But as she reminds me, "It's still money in the shop!"

Mike

[Paul Comi]

Every time I buy a woodworking tool, I tell my wife the same thing. But as she reminds me, "It's still money in the shop!"

Mike

Sounds like you need to make something for her... When you build something for her that she is excited about, she's more likely to go along with you saying "I need this tool to build this project"

[Martin Shupe]

Paul,

I wasn't trying to start anything, honest!

As far as cost goes, I have Shapton stones, which I like, and they are cheaper, albeit slower. I like the new LV jig, too, it does well, except for my smaller chisels, which tend to skew, causing problems. I don't think I would have that problem with the Lapsharp.

I have tried a Tormek, which I liked as well, except for the way the grits are changed, and then you have to finish with Shapton's anyway.

I put the Lapsharp in the same price range as the Tormek, so that is what I compare it to, although I should compare it to the LV MK II.

I don't have many planes, but as I acquire more, I could see where a Lapsharp would be a nice way to save some time and increase my sharpening results.

Do I need one at this point? No. Do I want one anyway? Yes. Do I want to spend that much money? I am not sure.

I will continue to analyze this acquisition. Thanks for all the input.

[Paul Comi]

Paul,

I don't have many planes, but as I acquire more, I could see where a Lapsharp would be a nice way to save some time and increase my sharpening results.

You know that this is a very slippery slope. DO NOT CLICK ON THIS LINK unless you want to become seriously bit by the hand tool bug. This is absolute hand tool porn.

[Gene Collison]

Did you know that the plates on the Lap Sharp are dead flat? Machined not cast. How about the fact that you can switch from one grade of paper to another without changing you’re setting. Try that with a MarkII.
LV uses vibration dampeners on there mounting feet. Then the infamous belt drive. That’s another story.

John,

In all fairness I'm sure that your lapsharp has some advantages over the LV MK11 which I own. But I question some of the things you are mentioning as negatives. Yes, the MK2 uses a timing belt drive, smooth like all belts, check under the hood of your car, South Bend lathes run with belts often for 50 years. I recently sold a 12" X 36" lathe with 35 years of time on it with the original belts. Infamous belts, I don't think so! I would be very surprised if Lapsharp didn't have nylon gears for drive, nothing wrong with either providing both are done right. Lapsharp advertises needle bearings as being more rugged than ball bearings, true. Toyota trucks have ball bearings on the rear axles, Ford uses roller which are needle on a larger scale, neither have problems, it just depends on how it's done. American made heavy duty motor??? So!
Yes, the MK2 angle changes as you change platters, it's deliberate, that's where the microbevel comes from. If you stay at the same angle your abrasives aren't lasting as long.
Don't read too much into my post, I'm not saying the Lapsharp is inferior. It is no doubt superior to the MK2 although I have never used one. By the same token, I am getting the job done just fine with the MK2 and actually prefer to use stones in most cases. For my usage, the MK2 was a good investment, I'm not so sure the Lapsharp would be, YMMV though.

Gene