Colorado Insanity! What will we do for wood?

[Dev Emch]

Talk about insanity.... I think I have lost it in my quest to snag wood.

Its now November and its been relatively warm at low altitudes. But the National Park finally puts this year's firewood permits up for sale. The add was in the local paper and they said that only six permits will be sold this year. They do wild fire mitigation projects and pile up the wood in these wood dumps scattered throughout the park. So the permits go on sale 8:00 AM on the 14th which was a Monday.

So I set the old alarm clock and get up early to get this permit. I set the clock for 4:00 AM but I over sleep anyway. I fly out of bed at 6:00 and race down to the back country office. Not totally awake, I take a wrong turn and have to go about a mile to turn around and come back. Not a sole is in the local town. But now I am following two pick up trucks. And they appear to be going the same place I am. I am thinking to myself... "Dont you guys have a life? What the heck are you doing at 6:45 AM chasing down wood permits? Oh ya, that includes me too I guess."

And of course, the wind was howling the night before and its now a comfortable 15 degrees F. It was 10 degrees most of the night. But the wind brought in some clouds and the mountains are gone in a huge cotton ball. Then it begins to snow. Horizontally and not vertically. By this time I am wondering if I should just go home.

So we all get to the office parking lot and get out. Of course, there are others who have been waiting outside this deep freeze since 6:00 AM. Every one begins to rattle off their position in line. When my turn shows up, I see that I am number FIVE. COOL! Got there with one slot to spare. Just then, a hunter in an orange jacket is walking up the stairs and we all yell to him in unison.... DUDE, YOUR NUMBER SIX! About that time, a whole bunch of folks begin to trickle in only to find that the six permits are already sold. Its now 7:00 AM and the snow is blowing and its cold.

So at 8:00 AM, Ranger Rick lets us in and we all fill out the standard government paperwork jazz. This year, we need to go to Lily Lake. What a thrill! That place is about 11,000 feet MSL and if its cold here, I can imagine what its like up there.

So today, I hauled home my first load of several. The weather improved a bit and the temperature was a balmy 22 degrees F. Man, I love these heat spells! So before today, I spent a little time doing the standard work on the chain saw. Poured the old gas out on the driveway, got new gas and mixed up a fresh batch of 50:1 saw gas. I cleaned my chainsaw with a rag until it looked brand new. Actually, its almost new. It has only one season on the clock. My weapon of choice? The Stil MS 460 Magnum with a 25 inch man eater bar. Its the standard tool used by hotshots in this area. The most powerful saw Stil makes that is still considered portable. Filled up the chain oiler and readjusted the bar and chain tension. Pushed in the compression release and pulled the starter. Got the beastie running in no time. Of course, I am on my deck and now I am looking for a chunk of wood to test this saw on. Only deck railing posts. Nope, those gotta stay so I shut off the saw and packed it into the truck.

So I get up there and begin to scope out the situation. In years past, the Lodge Pole and Ponderosa logs were dumped there with log lengths of 10 or more feet. You have to have a chain saw! All I can say is that someone was rather bored this summer! All the logs were cut in firewood lengths and then dumped. They are still heavy. One ponderosa log was 3 feet long and 2 feet in diameter. Some of the other guys must of thought I was insane... I rolled this pig over to the truck and then heaved this monster into my truck. I am not going home without this log!

So I spent the day cherry picking the various piles for huge logs. Others were chain sawing logs into smaller, more manageable lengths. But I dont understand some them. They were cutting logs of about 6 inches in diameter into smaller lengths. Why waste time with the smaller logs right now? The race is on to get the best firewood and that means to snarf all those pig logs before anyone else gets them. As the volume dwindles down, then we can focus on the 6 and 8 inch logs which were cut to 6 foot lengths. Needless to say, I dont think I will need to use the old chain saw up there this year. The federal employees have already done this for us.

So its crazy what some of us will do to get our hands on wood for whatever its final purpose. Boy is this stuff nice. The price is not the best at 35 dollars per cord but it beats the 190 dollars for cord that the firewood dealers are selling it for.

[Paul Canaris]

Similar experiences in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" /><st1:State><st1lace>New Jersey</st1lace></st1:State>, except a permit was good for a day as I recall, so you got to repeat the show up at <st1:time Hour="5" Minute="0">5 am</st1:time> thing if you needed more.
In <st1:State><st1lace>Texas</st1lace></st1:State> the free fire wood is 120 miles away at a coworker’s 450 acre ranch, and with what gas costs nowadays I pass on that.
What do the local firewood dealers in your part of the woods consider a cord (aside from the dictionary definition)? I’ve found it differs from one area of the country to the next. Locally they think it is a pickup bed loaded even with the sides.

[Dev Emch]

They are full of it. Pick ups vary all over the board. Toyotas and rangers are not full size trucks. Some full size trucks have short beds and some have long beds. Mine is full size but its a short bed with a significant tool box in the bed. To it should be obvious to the casual observer that the pick up measurement concept is wrong and that makes it a type of lunch meat.

I had a hard time finding anyone who could give an answer. So I looked it up in the dictionary.

A cord is a measurement of solid fuel usually of the wood variety. It represents 128 cubic ft. with minimal air space. The customary layout for a cord is a block 8 feet wide by 4 feet long by 4 feet high.

So its snowing today like a banchee. But the woodworking show opens tomorrow in Denver. So even with the nasty weather, I need to try to get as much as I can today to fill out my permit.

[Quinn McCarthy]

Dev,

There are 2 ways to sell fire wood. By the whole cord which is 4x4x8 or by the face cord 16"x4x8. As a general rule there is 79-80 cu ft of solid wood remaining in a full cord when the air is removed.

IMHO If the Forest Service would manage their lands for something out of the ordinary for them(Timber) they wouldn't have to have fire fuel mitigation projects and you could cut as much fire wood as you wanted from the logging slash.

[Randy Denby]

This really surprises me....well maybe not if its an environmentalist thing. I finally got a chance to ride my dirtbike in Colorado a few years ago. I was amazed at the number of trees down. One trail, I know I must have jumped 200 logs on the way down. (Couldnt turn around and go back up due to the steepness) Why wont they allow people to retrieve this fallen timber?

[Dev Emch]

About four or five years ago, we had a rash of forrest fires around here. It was the year of or the year after the Hayden Fire which was the largest fire in the history of Colorado wild fires. I was on the way home from work when I was working as an engineer. My commute was about 1.5 hours one way. As I got to the small town of Lyons, I was re-routed up the peak to peak. I was not happy! IT was very late and I had my nose to the grind stone for about a good 12 to 14 hours so I needed some rack time bad! Turns out they had closed the road. We were dealing with the Big Elk fire at the time and the forrest service called in a slurry bomber. A modified world war II Privateer bomber that was rebuilt for forrest service use. As the pilot began his pylon turn manuver to get the aircraft lined up for the Lyon's Gulch ridge, something very serious went wrong. The wing just snapped and came off. The aircraft and a full load of slurry crashed leaving debris on both sides of the highway and in the Lyons Gulch trailhead parking lot.

All of these fires were a constant reminder of how important it is to think about fire before it happens. This is esp. true if you live in mountainous regions. We have had 40 to 60 years of serious fuel build up that results in fires burning differently then they once did. Have you guys ever seen an Aspen emit actual seeds? Normally they reproduce via suckers. How about a very tiny hard connifer pine cone that does not open? Instead, its loaded with extremely sharp thorns. These are called fire cones and they do open when heated. Aspen usually do not seed unless they have been exposed to a fire. This is the natual way. Fires rip through the forest at the lower levels burning off residual fuel and opening up fire cones for a new genertion of evergreens and the aspens throw seeds. But the fires of late have been grate burners! Moisture content drops down into the 10 percent range and the fires more often then not crown out burning the tree to death. Seeing a 60 foot old growth ponderosa crown out in excess of 100 to 150 feet will force anyone to have to change their underwear!!!!

The forrest service has applied for extra monies to help in the removal of excess fuel build up. But the federal government has not been forthcomming with the cash. Private land owners have taken it upon themselves to mitigate some of this risk by trimming out excess fuel and cutting the growth around mountain homes back. They have also gone to class A roofs in lieu of the old cedar shakes once popular. Standing seam and newer metal roofs are also popular.

But in the end, a major forrest fire has to be faught by first trying to contain it. The first 24 to 48 hours are critcal. Here the objective is to kill the fire and not contain it. If no resources are available or if the fire has been allowed to engulf more land, then it becomes a containment and management issue with the greater emphasis on trying to evacuate homes and to save structures and maybe livestock. Every hour that passes, the cost of fighting the fire increases massively. Pretty soon, were burning millions of dollars trying to contain and eventually kill the fire. Then, the mopping up operations and eventual replanting of trees and rye grass begins. Hopefully, the rye grass will beat the spring run off and prevent the side of the mountain from washing down the canyon.

So I asked the forrest service about this and told them that there are many folks who would love to help out here in removing this fuel which can be used as firewood in the winter. They told me that they would love to help but the rules require them to post a number of rangers or other personal for every so many civilian folks to make sure that everyone is supervised. And once again, the requests for some of this supervision was turned down in the federal budgets. I guess it takes the likes of the Hayden fire to finally wake some of these government fellers in Washington D.C. up. Right now, wild fire threat mitigation is a low priority issue in the government. Go Figure.

Knock on wood however. So far, I have been able to snag through a variety of sources both public and private enough firewood to keep me from actually having to buy it from the dealers. But I can tell you, its been harder this winter than ever before and I can feel the effects of two dollar per gallon propane on the available wood supplies.

[Mark Singer]

I just paid $270 for a cord of Eucalyptus stacked....that was a deal! Oak is $460 and Orange $430!

[John Hart]

I just found my firewood source for the winter. A guy who allows Tree Services to dump their cuttings on his property, will let me come and cut for free all winter. Mostly maple, oak and buckeye. I'm sure some will end up on the lathe!

[Jim Hager]

You guys have got it bad!!!! Here in good ole Arkansas alls you has to do to get a pickup load of firewood is to call on ole JerryBob and he'll bring a full to the brim top of the cab load for $35 and stack it up on the pile for you. We call that a rick or rank.

I've been giving away dead trees on my place just to get rid of them. I've got probably 16 rick (1/2 cord per rick) from clearing my place when I built the new house and the shop.

[Bob Oehler]

Hey all
I just bought a log truck full of wood, oak, hickory, ash, and a little walnut for 240.00 delivered. I need to cut and split it, no biggie. I just ran out of time to cut for my self this year. He says that there is 4 to 5 2-1/2 dump truck loads there which he figures is between 2 and a face cord to 3 cords. Thats like 8 8' bed full size pick up loads.
I'll take a picture when I get home of the pile of wood. It was delivered after I left for work this AM. I passed him on the road comming to my house. This is the first time that I ever purchased wood this way. It was cut last winter and this spring. Should be just right for heating.


Take care
Bob Oehler

[Dev Emch]

You guys kill me

What we would do for a few cords of oak and other hardwoods. But Mark, tell me your not going to burn the stuff your getting? Well, maybe the red oak. But orange? Is that orange fruit or osage orange? In either case, some of that will wind up as lathe training stock if I had that!

I use lots of wood these days. My propane bill has been getting worse and worse unitl I finally went nuts. Last January, we did not heat the main house with wood. My propane heating bill was $1450 dollars. FOR ONE MONTH! And that was with two of the four primary zones shut down. This is cruel and unusual punishment! Can you imagine what that chunk of money could do at Lie Nielsen's concession? And I would still have these LN tools when its time to check into a nursing home! But propane, like a can of beans, that is instant gratification.

So now I snarf wood from anywhere I can. Some of the private folks are pretty good and they just want dead trees out of there. So if I get to cut your tree in colorado and keep the wood, I will do it for free. The Nataional Park (i.e. *NOT* US Forrest Service) permits are limited in what you can get but the quality is outstanding!

Now, if anyone has an old Simpson Duratech, Double wall pipe setup that they wish to sell, let me know! I need to run Duratech through a flat ceiling and then out the roof. So that would be a ceiling thimble, about 9 feet of 6 inch double wall stainless, a rain cap, and an insulation ring. Any other kit considered. Got any Tees? No problem with used as long as it has not had a flu fire which wrecks the interior tubing. PM me if you got any of this.

[John Hart]

It's funny....we decided to burn wood this year and got started toward the end of September. Our gas bills have been around $35, which is starkly different than last year (around $100 and $300 in January). The Gas Company just called the other day to schedule someone to come out and inspect our meter. They think we're tampering with it!!!! I consider this a very good sign. Have a warm winter everyone!

[Andrew Ault]

John,

That is funny!

- Andy